Aftab

Blue Note Tone Poet Series to continue in 2020...

78 posts in this topic

I have all of these in cd but I could see springing for Roots and Herbs, and the Waiting Game. 

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If you are sensitive to pitch variations, these reissues are not for you. Just about all releases with piano on them suffer from audible flutter to varying degrees. 

The "official" explanation from Blue Note/Kevin Gray is that the master tapes have aged. This is very disconcerting, since there seemed to be no problems of this kind only a few years ago. 

I got only one title, Etcetera, which was a nice remaster but had occasional warble in the piano (and this title is apparently one of the least affected ones). I am sensitive to this kind of issue and will not get other releases. Luckily, everything is already out there in good sound on many other releases. 

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6 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Luckily, everything is already out there in good sound on many other releases. 

That is the saving grace in all this. I might buy one or two of these more out of curiosity but the CDs, orig. LPs, Mosaic reissues and King/Toshiba reissues more than cover all the bases. I’m done !

The Hoffman Board has quote a lengthy explanation (by Kevin Gray I think) linked to type of tape used and mechanisms for ageing and damage which I find quite convincing. I am assuming that recent Japanese CD reissues were not affected as they utilised master tape copies taken more than 30 years ago - presumably the ones originally utilised by King and Toshiba for their reissue LPs?

Edited by sidewinder

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13 hours ago, Daniel A said:

If you are sensitive to pitch variations, these reissues are not for you. Just about all releases with piano on them suffer from audible flutter to varying degrees. 

The "official" explanation from Blue Note/Kevin Gray is that the master tapes have aged. This is very disconcerting, since there seemed to be no problems of this kind only a few years ago. 

Noted, and enough to put me off. I’ll probably sample as as and when, and take it from there. 
 

FWIW, I don’t think you need especially sensitive ears to notice the piano-warbling!

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15 hours ago, Daniel A said:

If you are sensitive to pitch variations, these reissues are not for you. Just about all releases with piano on them suffer from audible flutter to varying degrees. 

The "official" explanation from Blue Note/Kevin Gray is that the master tapes have aged. This is very disconcerting, since there seemed to be no problems of this kind only a few years ago. 

I got only one title, Etcetera, which was a nice remaster but had occasional warble in the piano (and this title is apparently one of the least affected ones). I am sensitive to this kind of issue and will not get other releases. Luckily, everything is already out there in good sound on many other releases. 

You listened to one and are an expert. Impressive.

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21 minutes ago, kh1958 said:

You listened to one and are an expert. Impressive.

I am flattered, but I realize I was not clear, and there is no real reason to be impressed. Sorry for that. I have heard needle drops of several tracks from the other releases (they are available in a thread on the Hoffman forum). 

I did not know any of the issues and the controversy around the series when I got my copy, but came to that thread only when I started to google around after hearing these issues on the Etcetera album. 

I realize many people are either not sensitive to this issue or think that the positive aspects of these remasters - there are several - are more important. It is just that I think it stands out in a negative way, and what's more, I have hardly encountered flutter to this extent on any other reissues, recent or older. 

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10 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I am flattered, but I realize I was not clear, and there is no real reason to be impressed. Sorry for that. I have heard needle drops of several tracks from the other releases (they are available in a thread on the Hoffman forum). 

I did not know any of the issues and the controversy around the series when I got my copy, but came to that thread only when I started to google around after hearing these issues on the Etcetera album. 

I realize many people are either not sensitive to this issue or think that the positive aspects of these remasters - there are several - are more important. It is just that I think it stands out in a negative way, and what's more, I have hardly encountered flutter to this extent on any other reissues, recent or older. 

Sorry, inappropriate sarcasm from me. 

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No 'expertise' required.  Just visit the Hoffman forum and peruse the hundreds of comments from Tone Poet customers.  This past March when the first Tone Poets were released,  keyboard flaws were easily heard on Andrew Hill's 'Black Fire', setting off a flurry of angry messages followed by returned LPs.  The complaints about this and other TP releases are directed toward specific keyboard moments which customers have described as "warble", "wobble", or "pitch stability". 

Even more maddening, until the Tone Poets, these brief flaws had never been dramatically revealed in previous same Blue Notes on vinyl or CD -- as recently as Liberty, United Artists, Blue Note 75th vinyl, or CD issues be they early McMasters or Connoisseur series. 

   

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3 hours ago, kh1958 said:

Sorry, inappropriate sarcasm from me. 

No problem. Couldn't resist using some myself, so i am not complaining. 🙂 

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Michael Cuscuna tellls me that these Tone Poet LPs are selling incredibly well, so I imagine we'll be seeing more & more of them... well, until they don't sell. :)

The thing I wonder is if "sell" = "number of LPs pressed" as I bet with all the returns I've read about, they are pressing a lot more than they're selling.

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RE: "Number of LPs pressed", the financial backing of Blue Note/Universal and distribution via Universal ensures ready access.  The list price of $34.99 for all Tone Poets and the absence of 'limited editions' keeps the inventory steady.  

By comparison, Music Matters is a privately held company with limited edition releases available only by mail order*.  As the available quantity of a title declines, MM increases the price.  Once a specific title from MM is sold out, that's it.  ("Sorry, Charlie.) 

*an exception: Waterloo in Austin, TX has been granted direct sales by MM, and perhaps others

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The Tone Poet and other BN LPs are in the racks at HMV stores in the UK. That is good distribution. 

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2 hours ago, David Ayers said:

How about a release of High Frequency?

Watched an episode of Route 66 last night, and an obviously horny Buzz is flirting with an obviously horny woman (and vice versa) on some sky ride in New Mexico where he's working. She asks him what his name is and he says "Buzz", to which she coyly replies, "Buzz? Is that a name or a high frequency?", to which Buzz, of course, equally coyly replies, "Why don't you find out?", after which they agree to "dinner" and then the story moves one.

High Frequency George Maharas, y'all. One of the great actors of our time.

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8 hours ago, JSngry said:

Watched an episode of Route 66 last night, and an obviously horny Buzz is flirting with an obviously horny woman (and vice versa) on some sky ride in New Mexico where he's working. She asks him what his name is and he says "Buzz", to which she coyly replies, "Buzz? Is that a name or a high frequency?", to which Buzz, of course, equally coyly replies, "Why don't you find out?", after which they agree to "dinner" and then the story moves one.

High Frequency George Maharas, y'all. One of the great actors of our time.

Well, er...I hope Don Was agrees with you and puts this one out!
 

Mind you, I’ve got the original, so, ...

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I've also got the original, but it is off-center... 

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9 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I've also got the original, but it is off-center... 

The LT-series vinyl twofer? Will check mine but I think it is OK.

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2 hours ago, sidewinder said:

The LT-series vinyl twofer? Will check mine but I think it is OK.

Yeah, that's the one. One side is mis-centered, the other one not, so I have had to use a round file to make the center hole oblong to be able to play both sides without "wow". Not my only 70s Blue Note with this problem. 

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59 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Yeah, that's the one. One side is mis-centered, the other one not, so I have had to use a round file to make the center hole oblong to be able to play both sides without "wow". Not my only 70s Blue Note with this problem. 

Just dug my copy of the ‘Jacknife’ twofer out. No noticeable wow, in fact the sonics seem fine. In fact a good twofer all round, with Ira Gitler’s sleeve notes included. One annoying quirk of this copy though is that sides 1 and 4 are on one LP and 2 and 3 on the other. :wacko:

It’s also on the Mosaic McLean of course - haven’t compared against that.

Good reminder on this session - don’t spin it anywhere near enough. Can never get too much of Jackie Mac !

Edited by sidewinder

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9 hours ago, sidewinder said:

Just dug my copy of the ‘Jacknife’ twofer out. No noticeable wow, in fact the sonics seem fine. In fact a good twofer all round, with Ira Gitler’s sleeve notes included. One annoying quirk of this copy though is that sides 1 and 4 are on one LP and 2 and 3 on the other. :wacko:

It’s also on the Mosaic McLean of course - haven’t compared against that.

Good reminder on this session - don’t spin it anywhere near enough. Can never get too much of Jackie Mac !

And let’s not forget the Hipnosis part of the Hipnosis two-fer...

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6 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

And let’s not forget the Hipnosis part of the Hipnosis two-fer...

Also on a (superior) King LP.

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6 hours ago, sidewinder said:

Also on a (superior) King LP.

And never issued in CD, surprisingly. 

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8 hours ago, sidewinder said:

Also on a (superior) King LP.

Yep ....

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Only on this board. ;)

 

Pity they never got round to digitising these ‘missing’ titles. Hipnosis is hardly top-drawer, but I’d still like to hear that King LP...

 

PS Just remembered Hipnosis is on the Moncur Select. Duh. 

Edited by David Ayers

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Personally, I think ‘Hipnosis’ is a good session. Deserves a reissue.

The King LP wasn’t around for long when it came out and probably only 1-2 UK outlets stocked it.

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