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Tim McG

MLB Season 2020

527 posts in this topic

57 minutes ago, Brad said:

Yes, they want to reduce salaries because the revenues that MLB earns will be reduced because there are no fans in the stands, with resulting drops in concession sales. See this Jeff Passan article, https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29161983/passan-20-questions-why-financial-battle-2020-mlb-season-get-really-really-ugly

The players can’t expect to receive the salaries they would receive in “normal” times. Pain has to be shared. 

Will they get to share in excessive profits and/or revenues in the future? I’m generally not a fan of Scott Boras, but I agree with what he says in this article:

Players ready to play in 2020... on one condition

Not to mention there was already a negotiated agreement in late March that the owners are now trying to renege on.

I realize that this is a tremendously difficult situation for all parties involved. I also think from a health perspective that it’s still likely we don’t see any baseball at all this year (which according to the USA Today article will be even more costly for owners than a shortened season with no fans at the games). If the owners want to renege on their previous agreement, then players should demand profit-sharing of all future revenues in addition to their salaries. I know we’re talking well-paid professional athletes here, but it’s still the all-too-familiar principle of socialism-for-the-rich, rugged-individualism-for-everybody-else approach that plays out so often in America. Share the pain, OK, but then the owners had better damn well share more of the wealth that the players are generating for them.

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I don’t agree with you but you and I come from different perspectives on this. It is true that they made an agreement on this in March but circumstances have changed since then as it has for many other deals made since then; for example, the sale of L Brands (Victoria’s Secret) was unwound because of force majeure and a material adverse effect in the business.  Players, to the extent they share in revenues, shouldn’t get more than they bargained for under the present agreement since owners assume all the risks of operating a team. The alternative to both sides not agreeing is that players won’t receive any salaries, which will put the average player, not the stars, in a precarious financial position and some teams may have to file for bankruptcy. In France, where the government ruled that there is to be no more soccer for the remainder of the 2019-2020 season, certain teams may cease operations unless the government steps in and provides financial assistance, which is being considered. If teams go under in MLB, I can’t see states or the federal government doing that. 

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41 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Will they get to share in excessive profits and/or revenues in the future? I’m generally not a fan of Scott Boras, but I agree with what he says in this article:

 

“If I’m an owner of a company, I don’t ask my employees in a downtime due to the virus to bear the cost. I pay them their salaries. That’s what every business owner does. You don’t socialize their employees.

Really?

 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, catesta said:

“If I’m an owner of a company, I don’t ask my employees in a downtime due to the virus to bear the cost. I pay them their salaries. That’s what every business owner does. You don’t socialize their employees.

Really?

 

 

Afaik (happy to be corrected if wrong) players are already currently receiving dramatically-diminished compensation due to the lack of games being played, as part of the $170 million advance for April and May that was part of the late-March deal. This ESPN article elaborates at length on said deal:

What the MLB deal means

Those payments will stop at the end of this month, if I’m reading the article correctly. Not sure how the prorated salary agreement, which the owners now want to renege on, plays out in terms of any abbreviated spring training that might occur in June, as is now being discussed. Since it applies to regular-season games played, I assume players won’t be getting paid during any compressed conditioning period. Again, could be wrong about that, but overall point is that players already have sacrificed a large part of their compensation for 2020. Asking them to take a further hit when they’re the ones who will be putting themselves in harm’s way, *and* when there’s already an agreement in place, just strikes me as wrong. 

In any case I’m inclined to bet that this is a moot discussion. I miss baseball (and basketball too, to some extent) as much as anybody, but the health and safety factors involved in making any kind of sports viable on a mass scale still seems unlikely to me. Are owners and players going to have to revisit the needed-to-reopen elements of that March agreement as well? Because what’s laid out there seems very unlikely to me to come to pass in time for even an abbreviated 2020 season. Although as the article says, Manfred has considerable leeway to revise them:

>> The agreement outlines three necessities to start the 2020 season, though it offers significant caveats that allow Manfred -- in consultation with the union -- to override them.

1. No governmental edicts on mass gatherings that would prevent teams from playing in their home stadiums;

2. No travel restrictions in the United States or Canada;

3. The determination, after talking with health experts and the union, that playing does not expose players, staff or fans to health risks.

The caveats are the key to this seminal part of the agreement: Manfred, it says, can consider the use of neutral sites instead of home stadiums as well as the possibility of playing in front of no fans. Though not ideal, games with no fans in areas that are not coronavirus hot spots provide the clearest path toward games being played.<<

On that score, Canada’s looking to keep their border wjth us closed for another six weeks. Maybe that doesn’t matter if the Blue Jays are playing all games on a neutral U.S. site., or if Canada decides to reopen the border come July 1, just in time for a shortened season. But seems like another X factor at this point.

Edited by ghost of miles

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Posted (edited)

Posted this in the Covid poll thread, but it’s highly pertinent to MLB/sports discussion as well. If one guy in South Korea infect as many as 80 people in a single outing, how does that portend for large groups of athletes playing or practicing together every day?

South Korean case shows the dangers of reopening

Starting to look like herd-immunity-or-bust until we get a vaccine. Which means a hell of a lot more sickness and death... but also means there’s no good reason to put people and players in harm’s way for the sake of entertaining the masses. I miss baseball, but I don’t want people potentially suffering long-term organ damage or dying to bring it about. There’s plenty enough of that going on just at the day-to-day getting-by level of life right now.

Edited by ghost of miles

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59 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Posted this in the Covid poll thread, but it’s highly pertinent to MLB/sports discussion as well. If one guy in South Korea infect as many as 80 people in a single outing, how does that portend for large groups of athletes playing or practicing together every day?

South Korean case shows the dangers of reopening

Starting to look like herd-immunity-or-bust until we get a vaccine. Which means a hell of a lot more sickness and death... but also means there’s no good reason to put people and players in harm’s way for the sake of entertaining the masses. I miss baseball, but I don’t want people potentially suffering long-term organ damage or dying to bring it about. There’s plenty enough of that going on just at the day-to-day getting-by level of life right now.

I love watching sports also, but given the uncertainty about even basic matters concerning the virus, I think it sports should shut down the rest of the year, that might mean even the SEC!

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Not if they can do it safely. 

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21 minutes ago, Brad said:

Not if they can do it safely. 

I don't get if the general public still needs to be six feet apart for safety reasons in the next couple of months, at the minimum, how players in the NBA, NFL, and MLB are going to be safe, along with their families. I know these players are in great shape, but still, young people do die from the virus. Maybe I'm missing something in all the different scenarios I'm hearing...

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19 minutes ago, Matthew said:

I don't get if the general public still needs to be six feet apart for safety reasons in the next couple of months, at the minimum, how players in the NBA, NFL, and MLB are going to be safe, along with their families. I know these players are in great shape, but still, young people do die from the virus. Maybe I'm missing something in all the different scenarios I'm hearing...

I’d like them to at least come up with some plans to see if it’s feasible. If it’s not, then so be it. MLB might have the best shot because players are generally spaced apart, except at HP. Maybe now would be the time to have computers call balls and strikes, with no HP umpire. 

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6 hours ago, catesta said:

“If I’m an owner of a company, I don’t ask my employees in a downtime due to the virus to bear the cost. I pay them their salaries. That’s what every business owner does. You don’t socialize their employees.

Really?

Well, if you're Mark Cuban, you do.

Not that I advocate everybody becoming Mark Cuban, much less expect everybody else to act/think like him, but I guess he crunched the numbers and decided he could do it.

So there's that.

 

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Posted (edited)

RIP

Bob Watson 

 

Edited by Soulstation1

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RIP Bull

s-l1600.jpg

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That’s a shame. He had a wonderful career. He also had a stint as a Yankees broadcaster; he was a no nonsense guy. RIP. 

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Baseball columnist David Lennon has several tweets up about the COVID-19 protocol that MLB's developing.  This answers, for better or worse, one question that I had:

Manfred told CNN last night that a player testing positive will not result in all those exposed being quarantined. MLB can’t do that because it would shut down team and wreck season. CDC guidelines suggest 14 days quarantine for those with known exposure to prevent the spread.

Manfred on positive tests and quarantine

Some of the responses to that tweet raise valid skepticism about whether or not this is going to work.

Manfred lays out coronavirus plan for MLB

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I gotta ask, just how leveraged are these motherfuckers? I get that a mom and pop shoe repair shop ain't gonna have a lot of cash reserves, but THESE folks?

Where them squirrels stashing all them acorns anyway? Winter come early this year.

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If players are tested daily and show no symptoms, exposure to a person shouldn’t require the entire team to be shut down.

It’s hard to know how much debt each team is carrying without seeing their finances and nobody is going to tell us that. However, big teams like the Yankees, Dodgers and Cubs are probably financially healthy and could weather a year of no baseball. The others, especially small market teams, who knows. 

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2 hours ago, Soulstation1 said:

Honestly, the protocols being proposed are unworkable for a baseball game; for one thing, who is going to watch over and certify that the protocols are being followed? The home team? MLB? Union rep? Someone from the outside? I don't see how any sport is going to be played.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Matthew said:

Honestly, the protocols being proposed are unworkable for a baseball game; for one thing, who is going to watch over and certify that the protocols are being followed? The home team? MLB? Union rep? Someone from the outside? I don't see how any sport is going to be played.

Well, here’s the thing. Baseball is the least contact sport of any of the major sports. What does that say about the others re-starting. In addition, this problem will probably be around next year because it is unlikely that we will have a vaccine by then.  So, what do we do? Just say it’s too hard, throw up our hands and forget sports for the next couple of years. We are a problem solving society: we have a problem, how can we have sports during a pandemic.  We can find a solution. At the very least, we have to try. The WHO said the virus may be around for a long time and we may have to get used to it. I’m not sure I agree but if it’s true, ok, how do we live our lives?

Moreover, the German football league re-started today. If they can do it, why can’t we?

Edited by Brad

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Read article 

Reserve players will be in the stands 
 

don’t see how this is gonna work 

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15 hours ago, Soulstation1 said:

Wow. That just all sounds insane, in terms of practical implementation. I admire their trying to come up with a way of playing that significantly reduces the risks, and who knows... maybe MLB could make it work. Color me pessimistic for now. Could be quite a boon for stolen bases if holding runners on is discouraged or outright forbidden. 

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1 hour ago, Soulstation1 said:

Read article 

Reserve players will be in the stands 
 

don’t see how this is gonna work 

When I read the reserves would be in the stands i thought that meant those not active from the 50 man roster. So they're calling a pinch runner from the stands? That sounds crazy but entertaining. They should be timed and force to maneuver an obstacle course to get there. 

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