Dan Gould

BFT 202 Discussion

90 posts in this topic

Well, there's a funny thing you can do with the Lord discography and that is find all sessions in which two tunes were recorded. So I put in 'Blue bossa' and 'Willow weep for me' and got only four albums.

Richie Cole - Cool C - Seven seas & Muse. Not this, it was recorded with a Japanese big band in a Tokyo Studio.

George Essihos - Extraordinary measures - Virga. Not this Canadian piano trio.

Chris Flory with Duke Robillard & friends - Blues in my heart - Stoney Plain. Not this. No tenor player on these two tracks and Sugar Ray Norcia sings on 'Willow'

Sigi Feigl - Meet Big Band Sud - Jazzette. Not this Yugoslavian big band, either, though it's the only live one.

So what we heard is something that Lord doesn't know about, or which came out after the edition of Lord that I've got (2011), or one of those tunes has been spelt wrong in Lord.  The first is most likely.

MG

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4 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

I KNOW I haven't got any version of 'Camp meeting' other than Wilkerson's. 

 

 

4 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Well, 6:40AM and I'm having a second try at #1.

I KNOW I haven't got any version of 'Camp meeting' other than Wilkerson's. 

 

 

2 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

OK, I've got it now. It's a 45 I've never come across before. Didn't even know it existed.

Sent you a message, Dan.

Good pick!

MG

A message was sent?

Now that you know it you should tell the group - Jim got it only thru some app on his phone and isn't going to take credit that way.

The dates of these recordings seem awfully close together and must say something about how quickly the Wilkerson on BN came out after the recording session.

8 hours ago, felser said:

That's gonna frustrate the heck out of some of us!   Hope #4 and #12 aren't part of that.

But you'll understand when you learn the theme.

#4 is CD-sourced, but I don't know how common it is. I would guess limited distribution and no chance of a second batch being processed.  The issuing company's main line of business is not music. OTOH when I found about it and went looking I had sourced a copy within minutes.

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1. Bill Doggett?
2. I hear electric bass, I think.  Could be a smooth jazz band at their most mainstream, or not.  Good composition.  If it's Dan and I don't know it, I can always guess Gene Harris.
3. Funky trumpet quartet.  I'm thinking Lee Morgan, although Wynton Marsalis is a possibility.  
4. Herbie Hancock?
5. Sonny Stitt?
6. Johnny Griffin?  I thought Hank at first, but the rapid fire stuff near the end suggested a sax known for their speed, like Griffin or Golson.
7. Willis Jackson?  Doesn't sound like Pat Martino on guitar.
8. Sonny Rollins.  If this is here for Felser and me, it's appreciated.
9. I was thinking Miles with Trane, but the sax solos first, and there a trombone solo, not usually found on Miles dates.  This must be from Blue Train.
10. Willow Weep for Me.  I played the one from Blue Hour to make sure it wasn't that one.  It's not.  No piano, for one thing.  Hard not to think Sonny Rollins, although disciples like Grant Stewart and Eric Alexander are also a possibility.  Sonny.
11. Gene Ammons? Melody recalls More.
12. Willow Weep for Me again.  The transition between tracks makes it sound like it comes from the same live performance that the last track did, so more Jug.
13. Electric piano.  Maybe Joe Henderson?
14. Request for herbal assistance.  i choose not to publically conjecture on who Ben or <bleep> might be.

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9 minutes ago, randyhersom said:

1. Bill Doggett?
2. I hear electric bass, I think.  Could be a smooth jazz band at their most mainstream, or not.  Good composition.  If it's Dan and I don't know it, I can always guess Gene Harris.
3. Funky trumpet quartet.  I'm thinking Lee Morgan, although Wynton Marsalis is a possibility.  
4. Herbie Hancock?
5. Sonny Stitt?
6. Johnny Griffin?  I thought Hank at first, but the rapid fire stuff near the end suggested a sax known for their speed, like Griffin or Golson.
7. Willis Jackson?  Doesn't sound like Pat Martino on guitar.
8. Sonny Rollins.  If this is here for Felser and me, it's appreciated.
9. I was thinking Miles with Trane, but the sax solos first, and there a trombone solo, not usually found on Miles dates.  This must be from Blue Train.
10. Willow Weep for Me.  I played the one from Blue Hour to make sure it wasn't that one.  It's not.  No piano, for one thing.  Hard not to think Sonny Rollins, although disciples like Grant Stewart and Eric Alexander are also a possibility.  Sonny.
11. Gene Ammons? Melody recalls More.
12. Willow Weep for Me again.  The transition between tracks makes it sound like it comes from the same live performance that the last track did, so more Jug.
13. Electric piano.  Maybe Joe Henderson?
14. Request for herbal assistance.  i choose not to publically conjecture on who Ben or <bleep> might be.

Many interesting guesses Randy but no hits.  13 is fender not electric piano.  When I first listened I thought 3 could be interpreted as Mogie but while he has that air of aggression the articulation is too clean to be Lee (and it's not Wynton).  Does Willis Jackson play alto? I don't know I've ever heard of him on anything other than tenor.

I guess you enjoyed a few at least?  Thanks for sharing your guesses.

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Congratulations, I think you pulled off the theme rather well, I like it more than Felser did.  No duds.  The tenor trios were more adventurous than expected.

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Posted (edited)

20 minutes ago, randyhersom said:

Congratulations, I think you pulled off the theme rather well, I like it more than Felser did.  No duds.  The tenor trios were more adventurous than expected.

You got the theme? Do share!

Edit to say: Oh, a theme as in WWFL? That wasn't the theme, just the guiding principle on certain selections, within the confines of the actual theme which is .....?

Edited by Dan Gould

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Well the WWFL theme.  I haven't detected the other theme

 

How about Milt Buckner on #1?

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22 minutes ago, randyhersom said:

Well the WWFL theme.  I haven't detected the other theme

 

How about Milt Buckner on #1?

Nope ... and maybe it should have been WWRL instead? I apparently hit for a higher average on that score. :P

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36 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Nope ... and maybe it should have been WWRL instead? I apparently hit for a higher average on that score. :P

Well, isn't WWFL more of a challenge?  Go for the gusto!

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#2....doesn't really sound like Sal Nistico, except on the bridge...later Nistico, but not really...

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32 minutes ago, felser said:

Well, isn't WWFL more of a challenge?  Go for the gusto!

Well yeah, but Randy has had his issues with mine in the past. No duds is high praise which I will gladly take. :P

25 minutes ago, JSngry said:

#2....doesn't really sound like Sal Nistico, except on the bridge...later Nistico, but not really...

Yeah, no not him. 

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1 hour ago, randyhersom said:

Jerry Bergonzi, Ari Ambrose or George Garzone on 2?

No, and if those guesses are based on the whole WWFL thing, this was not a tune I picked with him in mind. Tenor is more firmly in my alley, for whatever that's worth.

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2 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

No, and if those guesses are based on the whole WWFL thing, this was not a tune I picked with him in mind. Tenor is more firmly in my alley, for whatever that's worth.

Depends which tenor player(s).  I do fluent Billy Harper, Pharoah Sanders, John Coltrane, Joe Henderson, etc.

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OK #1 is a Sam Lazar 45, recorded shortly after his Playback album and probably with the same personnel.

MG

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4 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

OK #1 is a Sam Lazar 45, recorded shortly after his Playback album and probably with the same personnel.

MG

Ding Ding Ding.

What I find especially interesting is that per the BN discography, the Preach Brother session which debuted Camp Meetin' was June 18 1962 and this 45-only recording was October 1962 per the 45Cat website (this is the B-side and as you know you should always check the flip :g ).  I might be wrong on this but when I realized, it struck me as a really fast roll-out of Wilkerson's recording by BN, for Lazar to be covering Camp Meetin' four months later?

Wilkerson's original is hoe-down style bootie-shakin music. Lazar turns it into bootie-shakin music for city folk.

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10 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

o, and if those guesses are based on the whole WWFL thing, this was not a tune I picked with him in mind. Tenor is more firmly in my alley, for whatever that's worth.

 

Those guesses were based on the fact you thought JSngry might have gotten it.

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31 minutes ago, randyhersom said:

Those guesses were based on the fact you thought JSngry might have gotten it.

Actually it was based on jsngry getting it for both owning it and being well aware of this player. I will say he's frustrated right now.

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So - Bootsie Barnes (6) and Sam Lazar (1) are the only identified tracks.

The artists have something in common that would reveal the theme, even in the absence of any more track ID's. (Remember the last track is not part of the theme.)

 

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I guess I can call out James Clay on #2, although the source must remain undisclosed...because to find it, you might well have to enter another dimension!

and I'm guessing that the them might be "local legends" or "local heroes" or something along those lines?

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Make it a noun and not a modifier.

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Locals?

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"Local".

As in "Percy France (not programmed  for the first time in two years) was a local musician. But since his locality was NYC, he had to have skills."

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Had to!

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Bootsie Barnes was an inspired choice for Philly, then.  Larry McKenna also would have been.   

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