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If its included its not a course or book I am interested in. To me its easier to draw a straight line from the swing era to the "Jazz with a Beat" (borrowing member ListeningToPrestige book title) than anything worthwhile that leads into "Smooth" "Jazz". And I certainly can't be troubled to figure out who isn't on the level of Boney James or Dave Koz and who is doing something "worthwhile" in the genre. It doesn't bother me at all that both genre's sought/seek "hits" - I will keep saying "Make mine Chunky" and argue that "Jazz With a Beat" all the way thru the Soul Jazz era have more in common with the origins of the music than Smooth ever will.

I forgot Windham Hill. That and the wider New Age movement was a part of this too. Perhaps it is a chapter on the Commercial Jazzes of the Late 1970s to early 1990s. Prior to the environmental collapse caused by the twin rise of Gorlitz and the swinging retro pop revival. This is a fun and quite poignant list. So many hopes and dreams on there. Guys in rented evening dress for the cover shoot, recording under the covers so their kid sleeping in the next room doesn't get woken up, etc.

Absolutely. Like it or not, the Windham Hill catalogue is worth discussing. And since so many jazz histories would ignore free jazz or European jazz or soul-jazz or electronics-driven jazz, why add to the problem? If you were teaching a class on heavy metal—which I do—you cannot ignore nu-metal even if it is as commercially-driven as smooth jazz.

👍👍

Oh it was my first time listening to it (streaming, Deezer)! I don't know Rasmussen at all 😅 It was recently issued (I picked up on it right here:

Oh yeah. Five stars aren't enough for that record!

Hadn’t played my favorite record on my new deck yet

A bit off topic but I reckon that a person could make a cracking double CD of post-CTI Bob James. He really does have some excellent tunes, albeit on some pretty crappy records, some times.

yes, there was a list published and I was trying to find it. EDIT: the site it was on is gone but here's the list via discogs: https://www.discogs.com/lists/Smooth-Jazz-Underground/373593?srsltid=AfmBOoqRsc7RuuBONGFaS0nj4voHYNipEiZeUw_0BiudtJ90Iew5olli

"Bedroom" / underground smooth jazz... There was a list that got published somewhere a while back. Maybe you posted it? Someone who knows his or her stuff did.

okay, right. Was "fuzak" a term for this stuff? I feel like I remember that being used in the 90s.

What I mean is that the likes of the Rippingtons maybe played on a different radio station, or something.

see, I always associate Grusin with smooth jazz but maybe he isn't. Obviously both Grover Washington and Mr. Gorelick can play! cdbaby/lofi cassette smooth jazz has some interest for weirdo collectors. It's not my thing, really, but I can understand the appeal.

Genres are tricky. They're useful tools for understanding. But always limited.

Funny to use Jokerman font on a jazz album cover. Not one you'll see in the coffee table books any time soon...

It’s not that expensive but it took me a while before I obtained a copy trough Discogs

Oh yeah. I forgot Braxton. What are these records? I can't find this one on Discogs. Is it part of a series? And if so do you recommend them?

It's a funny umbrella genre. I'm not sure that the above artists are strictly smooth jazz in the way that Winelight or Kenny G are. More pop fusion, perhaps? Save for Botti who is more easy listening, maybe. I wasn't really meaning to ask though about whether members like smooth jazz or commercial fusion (I assume generally not that much) but really whether members regard this as a legitimate genre of jazz that is worth bringing to the attention of students. Even if the course is just a circle around the album cover for Winelight and another circle saying "Everything Else".

Exactly. There's good and bad smooth jazz -- just like every other sub-genre.

I think that I have mentioned before, but I wouldn't be at all surprised is Smooth Jazz becomes an area of interest at some point in the near future. It is a genre that is uncool at least partly due to association with the Gorlitz machine. We've all watched as soul jazz and 70s spiritual jazz emerged from the ashes to become extremely hip. What form such a revival would take is unknown to me, partly because I think Smooth Jazz is a bit of an umbrella genre and also because I'm definitely of the Gorlitz-scarred generation. I suspect that the music is much better handled as singles than albums (despite being an album led genre) and some enterprising Brooklyn record label will put together a good comp at some point.

Braxton has stated Desmond was an early influence, though he moved on from (or greatly expanded upon) that page in a lot of ways. When I interviewed him, he still spoke lovingly of Desmond.

Soul jazz is DEFINITELY in my book! Like Ellington, it's another case of overlapping Venn diagrams of commerce and art.

there's degrees of commercialism, of course... I'd rather listen to Winelight than Kenny G, and even Pharoah Sanders and Byard Lancaster could get that "keen" over a disco beat. OTOH, I might throw in some of Bob James' "Explosions" in a free jazz segment of the course. I think one could include smooth jazz but there's a way to do it and not include utter schlock.