jazzbo Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 JSP has just released their sixth volume of the Fats Waller commercial recordings. Worlds Records just added it to their site (www.worldsrecords.com). Wow. This was a really done project by a label I'm not always that enthusiastic about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted O'Reilly Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 JSP has just released their sixth volume of the Fats Waller commercial recordings. Worlds Records just added it to their site (www.worldsrecords.com). Wow. This was a really done project by a label I'm not always that enthusiastic about. Thanks for the update. I'll be getting this, to add to Vols. 1 - 5. (Not being contentious, but why are you not enthusiastic about JSP sometimes? When/why do they disappoint?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'm not a fan of their ripping off others' sets as they've (many of us "suspect") done with Charley Patton, Louis Jordan, Bunny Berigan. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted O'Reilly Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'm not a fan of their ripping off others' sets as they've (many of us "suspect") done with Charley Patton, Louis Jordan, Bunny Berigan. . . . Ah. Okay. (Not like they're alone in that, though, are they...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Uh yeah. But I don't have to be enthusiastic about any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted O'Reilly Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Uh yeah. But I don't have to be enthusiastic about any of them. So, like me, you buy unenthusiastically, but out of necessity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 No, I haven't bought any of the "stolen sets" I've listed or others. But I have bought the Fats Waller sets. Had much of this on the King Jazz cds, fourteen of them, but passed those on to my father, a great big Fats Waller fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I'm not a fan of their ripping off others' sets as they've (many of us "suspect") done with Charley Patton, Louis Jordan, Bunny Berigan. . . . Carter Family... JSP did steal that one; Bear Family sued them and won. Edited February 16, 2009 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted O'Reilly Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 No, I haven't bought any of the "stolen sets" I've listed or others. But I have bought the Fats Waller sets. Had much of this on the King Jazz cds, fourteen of them, but passed those on to my father, a great big Fats Waller fan. Still just an observation, not meaning to be accusitive, but, isn't this a sort of Variable Virtue? Sorta, "I'd never buy their stuff unless I want it..."? Or is it because these seem not to be a rip-off of anyone but RCA Victor, but they're in public domain, so.... It's damn hard to decide, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not claiming any virtue, I'm no angel on these things. These seem to be new remasterings for JSP by Ted Kendall from 78s etc. from collectors. It doesn't seem to be a rip from someone else's remasterings. They're presented chronologically and I think they sound better than the King Jazz and the RCAs I've heard. So. . . I don't think they stole these, I think these are their productions, and yes I wanted to have a comprehensive Waller cd collection, didn't have all the RCAs, and I went for it. If I felt these were just remakes of the RCA boxes, I'd look for those. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 These seem to be new remasterings for JSP by Ted Kendall from 78s etc. from collectors. It doesn't seem to be a rip from someone else's remasterings. Correct, they were mastered from 78s. To my ears Ted Kendall was a bit too generous with CEDAR noise reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Curious which part(s)/aspects of Cedar you think he uses too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Curious which part(s)/aspects of Cedar you think he uses too much. No idea, I'm not an expert, but he uses CEDAR for noise reduction; the 5 JSP Fats Waller sets I have sound rather "dead" to my ears, though not as bad as the RCA sets that were issued in the 1990s. Edited February 17, 2009 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Curious which part(s)/aspects of Cedar you think he uses too much. No idea, I'm not an expert, but he uses CEDAR for noise reduction. The 5 JSP Fats Waller sets I have sound rather "dead" to my ears, though not as bad as the RCA sets that were issued in the 1990s. Cedar is a suite of tools and each can be used to different degrees. Much too broad a stroke to complain about the system. He might deaden the sound before using Cedar. You never know unless you know what he's using and how. It is like blaming Studer for a lousy recording. Since you edited to talk about the RCA sets, they were done over an 8 year span with different tranfer and mastering engineers. Some of the later sets sound wonderful. Once again, too broad a stroke. Edited February 17, 2009 by Chuck Nessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Curious which part(s)/aspects of Cedar you think he uses too much. No idea, I'm not an expert, but he uses CEDAR for noise reduction. The 5 JSP Fats Waller sets I have sound rather "dead" to my ears, though not as bad as the RCA sets that were issued in the 1990s. Cedar is a suite of tools and each can be used to different degrees. Much too broad a stroke to complain about the system. He might deaden the sound before using Cedar. You never know unless you know what he's using and how. It is like blaming Studer for a lousy recording. I know CEDAR is a toolbox, but I get the point; I shouldn't have mentioned CEDAR specifically. The Studer reference is funny - I used one for the botched Lee Konitz recording back in the 1970s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Curious which part(s)/aspects of Cedar you think he uses too much. No idea, I'm not an expert, but he uses CEDAR for noise reduction. The 5 JSP Fats Waller sets I have sound rather "dead" to my ears, though not as bad as the RCA sets that were issued in the 1990s. Cedar is a suite of tools and each can be used to different degrees. Much too broad a stroke to complain about the system. He might deaden the sound before using Cedar. You never know unless you know what he's using and how. It is like blaming Studer for a lousy recording. Since you edited to talk about the RCA sets, they were done over an 8 year span with different tranfer and mastering engineers. Some of the later sets sound wonderful. Once again, too broad a stroke. I didn't edit to add the RCA sets, I edited a minor error; and I don't agree - though the later sets did indeed sound better than the earlier ones, to my ears they certainly did not sound wonderful. To each their own, I guess Edited February 17, 2009 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 You could almost say that if RCA don't want their stuff to be stolen, they should keep it in print. Not to be argumentative, but I have all the 1990s RCA Waller sets and they sound great to me. Above all, being a lifelong Waller fan, I'm delighted that his work is available again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 So - to the minds and ears of those who may have listened to each and every re-re-remastering - how do the two Fats Waller LP boxes and the additional individual LPs (Black & Blue LP series) reissued bvy FRENCH RCA in the 70s/80s (and including his entire studio output, so it seems) compare to all these CD sets? They are not THAT elusive either and they do sound OK to me (though I admittedly am a vinyl nut ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) So - to the minds and ears of those who may have listened to each and every re-re-remastering - how do the two Fats Waller LP boxes and the additional individual LPs (Black & Blue LP series) reissued bvy FRENCH RCA in the 70s/80s (and including his entire studio output, so it seems) compare to all these CD sets? They are not THAT elusive either and they do sound OK to me (though I admittedly am a vinyl nut ). I've never heard the French RCA LPs, but I'm told by someone who's also a vinyl nut that they're OK. Edited February 17, 2009 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I had a number of the French RCA LPs - traded them when the Kendall/JSP series started. Did some comparisons with the JSP Vol. 2. Some sessions were clearly better on the CD set, some were slightly better on the LPs, some were so close that it didn't matter to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (delayed) Thanks for reporting this, Lon. Gotta pick the last volumes to complete this series! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) just about CEDAR - it actually does attenuate some highs; with mulitple passes, the decrackle and de-click will both do so - the de hiss has other problems if used badly - but bad sound can have many related causes (poor A to D converters, for example). JSP, from an email I got from the owner, currently does very little of its own sound work - it mainly copies from other sources - my guess is that most of the bad de-hiss we hear these days is non-CEDAR. I can usually tell because it leaves these metallic artifacts, weird background sound (I have gotten this myself from cheap de hiss programs). The guy to stay away from is Steven Rosenthal, who has ruined some of the Alan Lomax Library of Congress stuff (and he also did the fairly recent Woody Guthrie, unfortunately). Air Show is another mastering house with mixed results, some better than other, but they often use too much de-hiss, which can be heard sometimes as a kind of "breathing" sound (the hiss recedes and than comes back in response to sound pressure). so, the deadness can be bad converters; or too may de crackle/de-click passes without upper frequency adjustment. The last also can leave some audible distortion, a kind of gutteral sound which sounds like someone clearing phlegm from the throat, and it tends to happen with sudden transients. You would be shocked to hear how much major label stuff has this, but I think it's the pressure to remove all noise, which is a big mistake, I think (listen to the opening of Weatherbird on the last Armstrong box - there's a quick flash of audible CEDAR distortion). To me the greatness of digital mastering of analog sources is that we can increase the clarity and detail (I love a good digital eq, for example). Sometimes this means increasing and than attenuating some noise, so the final product is still hissy, but the music is really there. The pressure for de-noise, also, comes largely from consumers, so you people (meaning the world) have to learn a little better how to listen and how to judge sound quality, IMHO - Edited March 26, 2009 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bixieland Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) (delayed) Thanks for reporting this, Lon. Gotta pick the last volumes to complete this series! Dittos! Thanks Jazzbo!!! I was wondering when this was coming out but couldn't find anything. I see Amazon now has it (added on 3/24). I've got Volumes 1-5 proudly displayed, and can't wait till vol 6 joins 'em!!!! I see it's 5 discs rather than the usual 4. Cool. Great series. As for the sound, I don't think they sound dead to me...perhaps a tad dark, but there's not a "muffling" sound. Just a mellowness and warmth, which goes great with Waller. I actually noticed how much sparkle and crispness there was on Waller's piano. I think Kendall strikes a nice, fair balance. Comparing it to the recent RCA 3-disc (Orin Keepnews, I believe) there's clearly a brighter, almost harsher sound on that one (not as bad as his Ellington Blanton-Webster set though). I definitely like Kendall's version better. I also like how Kendall doesn't master so hot, or loud. It really allows more dynamics, I believe. Good space between the tracks, very consistant sound through the set, and a nice full bass too. And OH! the price! Edited March 27, 2009 by Bixieland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted O'Reilly Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I agree 100% with Bixieland. (On this topic ONLY!) I received the Vol 6 Waller yesterday, and feel a sense of accomplishment that I have lived long enough to have actually finished a Complete Set of the artist's work. Save for all the transcriptions and radio shows....I'm working on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 No, I haven't bought any of the "stolen sets" I've listed or others. But I have bought the Fats Waller sets. Had much of this on the King Jazz cds, fourteen of them, but passed those on to my father, a great big Fats Waller fan. Wow. Now THERE'S a good son! :tup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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