AllenLowe

virtually everything in it is an advertisement - articles, reviews; honestly, I feel it's quite degraded, no integrity whatsoever. An occasionally interesting article, however -

well, it's interesting, because this also relates to my current fatigue with "oral histories" which, to me, represent the cheap and easy way out - no research, no understanding, no verification, no integration, you name it, a mindless technique: stick a microphone in front of someone and than transcribe it, and regard the results as the gospel truth.

well, not really; we can't compare the two tests unless we know what they were listening to; sorta like if you gave me two recordings, Sonny Sharrock and the 1910 Fruitgum COmpany; just because I id'd the white guys doesn't mean the same as if someone else mis-id'd Gene Quill and Ernie Henry - different era, different styles; so we would have to know who the bands were with the second (Black Jazz) test -

I guess that's what they mean by sheets of sound -

no problem with it here - I just think the concept of false consciousness tends to deny imagination at times (brings me back to 1973 and debating politics with campus radicals who thought I was a lost and foundering liberal; well, most of them became business majors) - nothing wrong with the idea of false consciousness because it does explain certain kinds of political behavior; only problem is when it becomes doctrine. sorta like Crouch accusing Anthony Davis of not being black enough - or Cynthia Ozick who attacked certain Jewish writers for not being Jewish enough. It imposes a certain sociological burden which can be unfair. and it leads, on racial issues, to all kinds of skewed logic (thinking of Roy Eldridge's blindfold test in which he misidentified a number of musicians by race, AFTER saying he could always tell the difference between a black and white musician). ultimately for great musicians there is no real simple sociological explanation - for Bird, for Ornette; products of their enviornment, yes, but both much more and much less. If sociology was the answer there would be 10,000 Charlie Parkers and 1,000 Julius Hemphills and 20,000 Louis Armstrongs. Donaldson is a fine musician, just lacking in that extra dimension -

and leave Chuck alone, he's like Monty Burns, will live until at least age 200.

you make me sound rational - and that's not an easy thing to do - I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but I honestly don't think Pepper ever had a real Coltrane influence - for him, like a few beboppers who never really "got" the Trane technique, it was really just a matter of superficial gesture; for Pepper it was an occasional slur on the horn, a badly placed squall here and there. Don;t mean to sound cruel, and I know I've posted a few times before about this (probably even on this thread); like Chuck I spent a little time with Pepper late in his career (maybe 1976 or 1977); nice guy, with the maturity of a 12 year old, still a brilliant altoist when he put his mind to it, though a certain narcissism seemed, to me, to have taken over his playing at times (listen to the ballads on the Vanguard set); classic junky behavior I must say with regret, in which the dependence seems to produce (and this may be confusing cause and effect) such a deep sense of self-centeredness that even artistic perspective is lost. Interestingly, as an aside, on the day I met him, in Boston, he had just fired Jaki Byard from his weekend band (I think Jaki's playing was a bit too abstract for him; somewhat ironic given his desire to reach outward musically).

in my day the accusation of "false consciousness" indicated a lack of understanding of one's rightful or correct sociological place; like a black person who wasn't consciously black enough, or a working person who had little understanding of his own class status. While there was often some real truth in such things (as in George Wallace's large working-class following) this perspective did not allow for imagination or certain kinds of historical transcendence. The result was a kind of schematicism, an expectation that people follow certain social scripts. As I mentioned before, my belief is that most art describes an alternative history; so I have no problem with a rich guy playing the blues, for one example. And I don't think the middle class can't be funky, only that it usually fails for lack of imagination -

I'm not sure - Kenny sounds pretty vapid in all the interviews I've read-

"the only relevant standard of authenticity is whether Lou is being true to himself " well, by this standard than Kenny G's work is great as well - no one is truer to their real self than Mr. Gorelick

well, the appeal of country music for me, in relation to this thread, is its connection with the sources of soul/blues/funk; sorta like how Muddy Waters connects to his sources - that electrical connection, literal and figurative; as for Gloria Lynn, if you have the Everests, very well might be Herman on organ and piano- listen for block chords (9ths on the bottom) -

and just to re-clarify, I still like a lot of what we are calling soul jazz (still not a good term anyway); but I think Hot Dog is just a terrible record - if we thought it was by Kenny G we would all be ripping at it -

ironically, as we argue, there is a thread about the Black Jazz label, which to me offered some real and African American alternatives to the Soul Jazz dead end -

uh, historically challenged ones, JFK did not put us in Vietnam; that goes back to about 1954 - but we won't go there except to say that it's not fair, anyway, to put words in my mouth, as I never even said what connosseur seems to think I said back to soul Jazz - jazz musicians almost always sound like they are over-qualified when they play that stuff; even Willis Jackson, who could play some nice Herschal Evans, sounded to me just self conscious when he went into his act - for me, once I've listened to the real thing (the afforementioned Gloria Lynn; any real old blues and hillbilly) than most of that soul-jazz stuff doesn't cut it - with a few exceptions, as I've already mentioned - as Miles said about OP, playing flat thirds and blues cliche phrases doesn't make you a blues player -

that's the one - gives me goose bumps -

thanks - I would, too, if I wasn't so old - one left -

love that final rip -

also, gotta admit, if Gould likes it, I usually figure I shouldn't - maybe not a foolproof method of critical judgement -

well, I hate that record - I've heard Lou quite a few times, knew his bass player (Jeff Fuller, who worked with him a bit), also got very friendly with Herman Foster in NYC in the 1970s - Herman, by the way, plays on most of those old Gloria Lynn records - now that's also great stuff - Herman played great, nice guy, if occasionally lacking in taste - I always found Donaldson to be uninspired; I have no problem with the movement itself, just find a lot of the players unable to tell the difference between gimmick and feeling -

yes, and musicians are often the world's worst judges of other musicians (me an JSngry excepted, of course) -

well, I've done both - only thing I can say is that, in my old age, with few gigs and opportunities to play, I constantly hear music in my head and it's making me a little crazy; kind of like being all dressed up with nowhere to go - some people hear voices - I just see chord changes and melodies constantly - this may be one difference of spectator vs player, the point of obsession - not necessarily beginner vs advanced, but want vs need -

that was a bad record - but his earlier work (with Charlie Lavere?) is some of the most advanced saxophone playing of that era- amazing and original stuff -

would be great to have a Western Swing history, though I don't think I'm fully equipped to do it- Cary Ginnell is ok but has problems; Kevin Coffey is a bright guy -

for swing era altos I like: Pete Brown, Rudy Williams - both Hodges and Benny Carter annoy me - Hodges is too florid, Carter too careful - also love Boyce Brown - Frankie Trumbauer (played alto on some sides) - smooth but DEEP - I like saxophonists who sound like they might make a mistake once in a while -

nice to see you too, Dan - must remember to tell you how a bullet entering from the front will not necessarily exit on a straight path but will hold off here, because that has nothing to do with the current topic - as for soul jazz I still prefer the real thing - as in more pop-oriented singer/performers who actually have a feel for the blues - let say: Lil Green Peggy Lee (pre-1950) Cecil Gant where's edc when I need him?