AllenLowe

well, there's a lot to what you say - however: "some people just want to judge based on some standards of musicianship which have been by now, transcended by new methodologies" well, these "new" methodologies are about 80 years old by now; check out Debussy's Etude for 8 Fingers; Ruth Crawford Seeger, etc etc.; in jazz these methodologies are 50 years old. As for myself, I have played and recorded this kind of music with people like Roswell Rudd and Julius Hemphill, so I am not unsympathetic to it or unknowledgeable about it. I do feel that the basic concepts of free jazz, like those of bebop, have run their course and I look for new ways to channel those concepts - what I see today are a lot of good musicians with strong theoretical ideas about the music, but lost in a new set of cliches - as a matter of fact, when you think about it, free jazz has had more time to gestate than bebop ever did - so it's time for something else, from my perspective. I myself am working on some new ideas, and currently have a recording project with Marc Ribot, Randy Sandke and Ursula Oppens, so I am trying to put my theories into practice, Clementine notwithstanding. I also do not care if these players can "hang with the real dudes" - I don't believe an artist has to create in traditional forms before he can do something new. What he does is good or it isn't - no need to prove anything else. Cline may well be capable of taking it in an interesting direction. I initially gave him 4 solid hours of solo playing, which, believe me, is plenty of time for an improvisor. I will wait and see - right now it's in Amazon's hands -

did anyone mention Jagger/Richards - and Bud Powell, for my money one of the greatest jazz composers -

for Kerouac as novelist (and I think he was capable of great work here) I'd recommend Subterraneans and Vanity of Duluoz -

well, let me put it in simpler terms that Clementine might understand: formalism as a term is not an invention of Stalin, though exploited by him to persecute artists (and used by other authoritarian regimes as a means to deprecate new art) - the term, however, has independent meaning; much as "avant garde" does not merely reflect Stanley Crouch's contempt for same, "formalism" has real and precise meaning in the critical and musical world. I have seen it used, for example, to describe Stanley Kubrick, whose long and sad artistic decline reflected his belief that his skill at manipulating film was enough to justify virtually anything that he did with the form. Same with a lot of contemporary musicians, who seem to think that mere experimentation with form is enough to justify any music thus produced (especially when accompanied by a good philosophic rationale). I have a problem with this.

I'll report back after Interstellar - but let me point out that "bullshit" does not necessarily have to track with commerical/financial success - in the case of the live performances I heard with Clines, I felt he was playing bad music - it doesn't matter what his motivation was. I mean, Kenny G is completely sincere, so you can see my point (and no, I'm not comparing the two) - I think that like a lot of post-modernist "free" players" Cline has gotten caught up in what I call the new formalism, a personal belief that his discovery of a particular form of sonics/imrpovisation is enough to carry him through artistically. Just dealing with a problem of musical form does not mean one has solved the problem - I just did not find his playing compelling, and I thought he was caught up in this formalist bullshit - hence my comment -

I think I'll go in and correct Ron S's entry - they forgot to mention that murder conviction - but hey, killing 6 children doesn't necessarily make him a bad person -

actually, I think he meant Durwood Kirby -

hmmm...heavy metal Morton - I like the sound of that -

say hello to Ben - he recorded with me on my Enja CD - great player -

well, talk to my widow - and I do wonder, did Cline PAY Julius to appear?

well, I caught a lot of flack in a recent thread for daring to say I didn't like Cline, based on 4 hours of awful "live" performance - since that wasn't enough for you guys, I've just ordered his Inter Stellar Space CD off of Amazon. Call me a masochist - I promise, even if I hate it, to tie myself to a chair and put the CD player on "repeat play" for 3 days or until I die - whichever comes first -

I'm gonna buy that box today - if the sound is ok I will sell my Rounder CDs and Swaggie LPs - if not, I will re-sell the box - stay tuned -

here's the discographical info for the Sonny Williams session - MR. WONDERFUL – Riverside RS-9466 (LP) * BLUES FOR DEDE* * MR. WONDERFUL * CYRA * LAMBERT’S LODGE * LOVE LETTERS * BLUES ON A SUNDAY * DEPARTURE * OPUS 2 JOHNNY "HAMMOND" SMITH, Hammond organ; SONNY WILLIAMS, trumpet; HOUSTON PERSON, tenor saxophone; EDDIE McFADDEN, guitar; LEO STEVENS or *ART TAYLOR, drums. Recorded at Plaza Sound Studios, NYC, 1963. Engineering by Ray Fowler.

just wondering if any of you are familiar with the recordings Smith made with Sonny WIlliams on trumpet. I knew Sonny years ago in New Haven; a nice, somewhat melancholy, guy, he had given up the instrument, but still used to hang out in the jazz clubs. I always thought he had a nice, lyrical style -

you won't regret it - she's a great writer; the story is not only amazing but she tells it brilliantly -

well, maybe he's..... out to lunch -

I just wonder if this can be traced to the early use of it in jazz - where was Jimmy Smith from?

well, their names DO meet on the cover -

from an interview with Georgia Tom Dorsey (the old blues/gosepl guy, not the trombone player/bandleader): on First Church of the Deliverance (a Chicago Church): quoted from historical sources: "First Church was one of the first African American churches to broadcast its services on the radio, beginning in 1934. Rev Cobbs hired Kenneth Morris to be his gospel choir director. Morris...introduced the Hammond electric organ to gospel music." is this signifcant in organ history? I've never heard reference to it before -

Aj's book is, IMHO, nothing short of one of the best books I've ever read about jazz or a jazz musician. I knew Joe pretty well, and he was a character, alternately a sweet and interesting guy/angry substance abuser. Great pianist when he was on, though prone to get lost in the middle of the tune (which he even does on his 1957 club recordings with Warne Marsh). He was a funny guy with a macabre sense of humor about himself. I was driving Joe to a concert one night, and he said to me: "you know what I'm gonna call my autobiography? 'I Licked Bird's Blood.' After Bird would shoot up he would pass the needle to me to use it , and I would run my finger over the needle, remove the blood, and lick it off my finger." that was Joe. Read AJ's book; it's brilliantly written. I cannot recommend it enough - it's a work of art -

absoutely - it's just that Dickey's playing in the years after the 1930s Paris recordings was inconsistent - moments of brilliance, but a lot of musical drifting. Clearly related to personal stuff, and than, later on, he was beaten and left for dead. He survived the attack but was never the same. I knew him in the last 5 years of his life, when he was still capable of some great playing, but was lonely and basically had just given up on life.

too late now - he's completely de-composed -

anything from that era with Dickey Wells is especially precious, though Coleman's best work was done in the 1930s -

thank you Nate - nothing wrong with that Chadbourne review, it's right on the money - Bley is a great pianist and brilliant guy; read his autobiography and also the new book of interviews that just came out. He's had a lot of fascinating stuff to say, especially insightful on Sonny Rollins. He's also a nice and personable guy, just moved to Floriday (I got an email the other day) and told me once about how one of the ESP's was reissued something like a quarter done off - and he was right, as I listened to it and tried to play along - He not only was the first guy to hire Ornette, but was playing "free" duets with a trumpeter (whose name escapes me) in the 1950s - he also has a great story about getting mortally sick at a Hollywood party that he was playing, and how he was saved only by the alertness of Lucille Ball, who called an ambulance. Listen, as well, to the piano duet he does with Bill Evans on that George Russell record - as Paul has pointed out, Evans copped his stuff directly on that, and basically learned how to play "free" -

I would add that the triplet implied in this pattern is likley the basis of swing in all forms of jazz and most of American vernacular music - it's the rhythm that Elvis first used on some of his earliest records - more implied than stated - and we hear it even on some early delta-type blues - and of course all over New Orleans R&B -