AllenLowe

3 Stooges - 3 Sounds - coincidence or conspiracy?

that first was PBS tribute to Dizzy, as I recall, and Al was very proud to be on it - good ol' Diz - a real charmer -

Chuck wrote: "BTW, on two differet occasions I saw Diz treat Al Haig like shit. Both times Haig just took it and played impeccably." I'm very curious - what year was this?

from reliable witnesses (Al Haig, Dick Katz) they were astounding every night - don't worry about the contemporary critics, most of whom had their heads where the sun rarely shines -

she was the object of the song Aint She Sweet - her father wrote it specifically for her -

I have no problem with any of that - I was really answering kevin - at any rate, the other thing to consider is the orignal transfer - because if you transfer an LP and someone else transfers the same LP there will be considerable difference in sound - and you are right, it is essentially audio restoration - not unlike the craft of restoring old paintings -

also, to add - I know at least one Mosaic engineer who has got the whole system and it is most likely he used de-click and de-crackle on his Mosaic projects - but as I said, they are similar (I've used 'em all) -

by the way I own a de-clicker - which is very similar to the de-crackler, only slightly less invasive. But, fellas, this is all noise reduction and that boat has already sailed. CEDAR is the standard -

nono nonononononononoonno- EVERY sound restoration person in the world, for the last 15 years, has used the phrase "noise reduction" to refer PRIMARILY to the removal of clicks and pops and crackle. This is not even an arguable point, and I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant, but I have known or spoken to some of the major people in the field (John RT Davies, Seth Winner, Doug Pomeoy) and that is the acknowledged terminology - I have done work for Sony and Rhino and Ryko Disc and Venus Records, and NPR and many many m,any others , and that is the terminology used - sorry to sound so weary here, but that is it - when CEDAR first came into use it's prime reason for being was de-crackling, declicking and de-popping. I know some of the first engineers who used it, and this is absolutely so - and on top of that I live about 3 miles away from the US distributior for CEDAR, and that is the terminology tTHEY use -

if the Sarah Vaughan contained pre-tape sources than I am certain CEDAR was used - however, I don't know that set-

actually, de-clicking IS noise reduction, as is de-crackling - that's the primary meaning of noise reduiction in sound restoration, not de-hiss - that is the standard terminology, and whoever you spoke to does not understand this - most of the use of cedar is for de-clicking and de-crackling, and that use CAN reduce high frequency info and introduce distortion as well, if not done carefully. The great majority of HISS REDUCTION that I've heard on recordings is likely not CEDAR but from the use of inexpensive programs, of which there are now many on the market (these are the ones that use noise prints) -

yes, there are literally thousands of Cedared - jazz/blues reissue discs that sound good - I can come up with a list in the next few days - for a start, all of John RT Davies's Frog reissues from the last 10 years (he died last year but confirmed for me a few years ago that he used CEDAR) - the only way top complare vinyl would be with older reissues where the vinyl sourse was from disc, not tape - but I'll put some list together -

I have known Randy for 25 years and have always felt he was one of the best-kept secrets in jazz - he has always gone in and out of the trad scene, though his natural style is much more contemporary - as a matter of fact he played on my Woyzeck CD, on both standard-changes and free material - a brilliant trumpeter, arranger, and all-around very knowledgeable guy (also played at my wedding) -

the ACE CEDAR connection comes from an interview I read quite a while back, and they were referring to disc-based transfers - there is simply no other way to do it without going insane, and I am certain it is used on virtually all the reissues that come out - the problem, as you touched on, is lazy engineers who use one setting for everything and are too lazy to listen or re-do - if you are in this business and don't realize how wide-spread CEDAR use is, than you need to make some calls - it is EVERYWHERE - I'm almost sure Uptown used it on the recent Town Hall/Bird - or let's ask Chuck - call Seth Winner in Brooklyn, who does TONS of reissues, or Doug Pomeroy -

also be aware that any sound restoration is only as good as the original tranfer - and there is a LOT of bad transfer work done - bad turntables, wrong styli, bad A/d conversions, bad sources, etc etc

may be - that's why I would urge everybody who is serious about listening to get a decent EQ built into their systems - you can really brings things alive with even a 10-band EQ if you know where to go (usuually 3500-8000K) -

hey Dave - left a VM on your cell -

ACE records in Englnd - which does some of the best sounding reissues - uses CEDAR for their disc-based reissues -

the Louis Armstrong Sony's all use CEDAR - and those sound pretty good -

as I mentioned, it is everywhere - there is no other effective way to remove noise - I'm willing to bet that there is no pre-war reissue that doesn't use CEDAR or some similar method - so if you refuse to buy recordings with noise reduction you are not going to have anything older to listen to

not true - Mosaic uses it on all of their reissues - I have talked to one of their engineers - you are probably hearing CEDAR on good recordings and just don't know it, as it is the standard, though not all companies will indicate it on the liners - John RT Davies used it for at least the last 10 years of his life; every SONY, every BMG, etc etc uses it - it is used on virtually every Euro reissue, good and bad; it is on all of the BMG "secret history of rock and roll" reissue; also Yazoo uses it (sparingly) - it's really everywhere - as I said, I'd be happy to give some samples - LP or 78, whatever you guys prefer -

another thing to consider - I've heard many historical reissues in which the dull sound was not the result of de-noising but of mastering EQ - a perfect example of this is the original Jelly Roll Morton box, which was attacked as having too much processing - the real problem was mastering (or post-mastering) EQ, and I have been able to get incredibly good sound out of this box with some tweaking - so one has to consider all stages of the process - many companies will try to EQ out the noise, and this can be very unfortunate -

Cedar used properly is nothing short of miraculous - on this forum I already did some work for Dan Gould, but more significant was an a/b I did for some forum members on the Benny Goodman Carnegoe Hall - adding Cedar to the reissue, which was not done originally. All agreed the post-Cedar was a major improvement. The bad Cedars you hav heard were probably the result of 1) over use of de-hiss - this should be used sparingly if at all, and 2) distortion introduced by too much processing - if you want a sample, send me a CDR and I'd be happy to comply -

when is it?

actually, I'm just happy to see you -