tkeith

Really surprised by Roscoe Mitchell. That did nothing for me. In the other direction, really surprised by Teo, whom I've never really dug, but to have him lead me to J.R. Monterose, well, I guess it's time to give Teo another listen. I'll just have to not watch Straight, No Chaser so I can avoid him revealing himself as a jive jack-ass.

Why you self-absorbed selfish little shit! *MY* 40th is in FEBRUARY!!!! (actually, it's cool -- I plan to be in an alcohol induced haze for as much of the month as is humanly possible; May is great. Thanks for doing this!)

I'm in -- download, please.

I knew better, Allen. As for attired, the first time I saw Rasul Siddik, he literally had dust in his dreads, but man, he played the shit out of that horn! MG -- you are correct, I once saw a slovenly tenor player with Cedar Walton who was just awful. I also saw James Carter dressed to the nines (also with Walton) playing his ass off. There is a national guy who plays in my area who plays in a very traditional style. A friend -- whom I like, but kind of clash with musically -- raved about how polished this guy was: "His slacks had a militaristic crease in them, and his suit fit perfectly. He played that way too -- he was unbelievable!" I listen to that same player and hear a guy playing what he has memorized in a practice room -- playing in an antiquated style that has very little to do with the current state of music. I don't care how a guy dresses, I just want him to push himself to his creative edge. Failure to do so results in the loss of my musical respect. Dressing shabbily does not.

About this we fully agree. As for the Wynton comment, because that's how I feel about his music. it's my opinion, not an attempt to be inflammatory. Funny, I was pretty hard on my description of Monder and very critical of Donny McCaslin, but that's not taken personal. I mention Wynton and I'm being negative. Perhaps we're accustomed to read into such statements. Player or audience, listen. About that we agree. Let me ask you, if Dexter Gordon were playing in sweat pants, would you listen? If Kenny G were playing in a tuxedo, would you listen? I didn't take it personally. I'm neither, you may have noticed, Wynton Marsalis, his agent, or his attorney . I just didn't want to open that can of worms. For the record the encounters I have had with Mr. Marsalis have been very pleasant and I admire him in many ways. I just don't want to veer off into a pro-Wynton---anti-Wynton thang. We've all had enough of that. Listen, man: I understand your passion and agree with some of your comments. It just was coming on a bit intense, which I'm sure was not meant to be inflammatory. So no offense taken here. Don't know much about McCaslin or Monder (I've met him, we're both guitarists and have mutual friends) except that they are good players, and that's always a good thing. I guess what I'm saying is that in my band I dress nicely and expect others too. Other bandleaders can do what they want---it's their business. I was just giving my opinion. Ain't no thing. Gotcha. That's totally legitimate. I don't typically dress like a slob, myself, though I won't say it's never happened. Play a lot of bar gigs and venues where it just doesn't matter (very much on the Bohemian side of the equation). I've played gigs in a suit that were bullshit, and I don't like to play bullshit, which is probably where the tense overtones come from.

This sounds very much like you are blaming faults in the music on the musicians' sartorial attitudes. They pay a lot of attention to their wardrobe and "as a consequence" you don't like their music? You're being argumentative. I said precisely what I mean. There are musicians whose music lacks the spark I seek as a listener. Many of them are the well dressed variety I see on the glossy, highly produced record covers. I'm not suggesting their wardrobe influences my ears, you are. I'm not concerned if you agree, I'm merely stating the way I see it. You're welcome to your own opinion, but don't put words in my mouth.

Since the neobopper debate seemed to evolve out of my comment, I'll address it in plain English. I'm not down on guys who wear suits, and certainly not down on them BECAUSE they wear suits. I'm down on the notion that it makes any difference in their playing. There is a specific group of guys (and naming one of them seemed to ruffle some feathers) who, in my estimation, seem to spend as much time worrying about their wardrobe as they do the music. As a consequence, I find their music uninteresting and programmatic. We can debate whether their wardrobe is a conscious choice or not, but I don't ever recall reading interviews in the NYT with Hank Mobley where he discussed his preference in underwear. The clothes may make the man, but they don't make the music. Here's a separate question: What about musicians (David S. Ware and William Parker come to mine) who wear African clothing? Eddie Gale and Dick Griffin frequently wear leather; is that appropriate dress? I'm sorry, but the topic seems fairly pointless if the music is good.

About this we fully agree. As for the Wynton comment, because that's how I feel about his music. it's my opinion, not an attempt to be inflammatory. Funny, I was pretty hard on my description of Monder and very critical of Donny McCaslin, but that's not taken personal. I mention Wynton and I'm being negative. Perhaps we're accustomed to read into such statements. Player or audience, listen. About that we agree. Let me ask you, if Dexter Gordon were playing in sweat pants, would you listen? If Kenny G were playing in a tuxedo, would you listen?

fasstrack -- we'll have to agree to disagree. Many audiences, particularly here in the northeast, are completely full of shit. I'm sorry you take exception to that, but it happens to be very true. I think we can all agree on one thing for sure, much of this depends on the venue. We definitely were conscious of dress when we played an auditorium gig at an area college, but the Sesame Street t-shirt gig was a bar gig (and I was sick -- I typically try not to fall into the description of Monder's outfit that I gave, as you noted, out of self-respect). Nonetheless, I've seen George Garzone play gigs in sweatpants and a sleeveless t-shirt where he blew the walls down. I've seen others (who shall remain nameless) wear beautiful suits and not say shit. I'll take the former, thank you. As for whether or not Jazz is a show, we're debating semantics, which is pointless. There are certainly those who consider it that way, but my mind tells me it is not. A show if rife with choreography; Jazz is (or should be) about spontaneity. Yes, you're presenting a 'product' but when you begin to think of it that way, the music suffers (see Marsalis, Wynton).

And I'd submit that Osby is a perfect example of a musician who should concentrate more on his musical statement than his wardrobe.

Fair enough, but we differ on one major point. I think Henry Threadgill would write his music if he were playing it to a tree -- the audience is irrelevant. To me, that attitude sets the dividing point of entertainment. I once finished a very intense solo which had grown into more of a collective improv with our trombonist complimenting what I was playing. He quickly picked up where I'd went off, headed in a very soulful/cerebral direction. He was in borderline pain and sweating profusely -- it was a beautiful musical moment. I typically kneel when another player is soloing, so I was in my crouch, re-establishing my bearings, and sweating pretty good myself. I looked at the bassist, who was in a similar Garrison-esque state, then behind me at the drummer, who had his head cocked to the side, listening as he complimented what was going on. I turned toward the audience (this was in a pub) to see their reaction, only to find that we were playing to an empty room as the bartender read her newspaper. There was no conscious effort to be entertaining, but it was definitely a creative high point for the band. I'll reiterate my assertion that music is not inherently 'entertainment'.

Then I submit it is not Jazz. Or rather, if Jazz has become a "show" then I don't want to play it. Jazz always was a show. Surely you can't believe that Armstrong, Ellington, Waller, Basie, Hampton, Goodman and so on and so on didn't know that they were putting on a show to entertain the public? Entertainment <> mindless entertainment. MG Sure, I'll by that. But if you're telling me that Coltrane was a show, I'm not going to agree. I've seen enough live music (Jazz and otherwise) to draw a distinction. David Lee Roth and Kiss were definitely shows. Air, Billy Bang, Billy Harper and Clifford Jordan definitely were not. Harper definitely dresses for the occasion, but that certainly doesn't relegate the music to "entertainment."

Then I submit it is not Jazz. Or rather, if Jazz has become a "show" then I don't want to play it.

I agree with most everything that's been said here. Of the current crop of younger players, I like him probably second best (to Abraham Burton). But at times I find him too clean. Also, I grew up a big George Coleman fan, and EA frequently plays too close to GC for me to appreciate -- I saw the original. That said, for that basically inside style, he's the guy that usually has me waiting to find how who the tenor player is when I hear him. A lot of this generation has that generic, 'recordable' tone -- his tends to be more unique and I find him more musical than a lot of guys who get more press. Much of that seems to stem from their being 'New York' guys while he's a 'Chicago' guy. Too damned bad the REAL music has been coming out of Chicago for the past 25 years.

I've played gigs where what we wore was a major part of the discussion, and we looked very "pro," but it was some jive-ass nonsense we were playing. I've played gigs in sweat pants and sesame street tee (which I'm currently wearing) that were lights out. The venue has a lot to do with it, but we typically dress casual. Musicians can perform nude if they're saying something, I couldn't care any less. I saw Donny McCaslin a few years back with Bruno Raberg, Ben Monder and some drummer named Giussepi something-or-other. Donny wore a turtle neck and dockers, Bruno had on a sweater, the drummer had a button up shirt by had not shaven in days and likely hadn't showered over the same period. I'm not sure he owned a hair brush. Ben Monder looked as if he'd crawled out of a foot locker 20 minutes before they hit. All the music that day came from the rhythm section, particularly drums and bass. I guess my point is, who cares what they were wearing? DM could not have looked more polite and presentable and that's precisely how he played it and it was boring as hell. Jazz is not a "show" like other forms of music tend to be. If you're that distracted by the outfits, there's a good chance you won't understand the music anyway.

As usual, Jim, always fun to read your responses.

I have the Argo reissue, but it's one of those that looks as if they made a bad photo copy of the original then used that for the cover. You can't even make out that it's Art holding his trumpet.

Yes, the sax player. I'll second the Brackeen recommendations. PM me the CB tune you were seeking -- I'm curious.

Usual disclaimers -- listened without looking, no research because I'm too lazy, and just documenting reaction: Track 1 Nice clean trumpet sound... maybe Art Farmer, but not quite as warm to my ear... also, something in those triplets is telling me Farmer is wrong. Benny Golson on tenor for sure. Flute could be Shihab, but sound isn't quite full enough for me to be confident. Bone sounds like Jimmy Cleveland to me. Can't pick up the bass on the laptop, but the drums have a Philly Joe tinge to them. I have a PJJ big band record, but I don't think this is it, although Shihab does play bari on that. I'm close, but stumped. Track 2 Not enamored of those chimes. Reminds me of Wednesday afternoons at my grandmother's house in the 70s, but there is something hip about the piano. Sounds like Vince Guiraldi to me. Maybe one of the Cal Tjader sessions. Track 3 I'm picturing go-go dancers in a Jimmy Stewart detective movie. No idea. Fun but not sure I could listen to it too often. Track 4 I was just listening to this... in fact just picked it up not long ago. Tchicai is one of my favorite under appreciated guys. It's Radebe, from this. Great bass hook and love those alto harmonies in the melody. Track 5 Oh yum. Love that bari. The tenor is one of the modern guys that doesn't really do it for me. I hear a lot of time in the practice room and not enough with other musicians. The guitar is also that heavily processed sound that grows old fast with me. It starts with a nice groove, but just doesn't go anywhere. Nice bass solo. At times this reminds me of something Peter Apfelbaum might do, but seems to lack the balls. Track 6 Oh yeah, that's my guy Frank Lowe and it's this. Close to the Soul (right in it, baby!). What a bitch of a record! ACM is particularly interesting on this and Wilber's bass is always a treat. Track 7 Nice snappy drums. But splashy at the same time. I'm not loving the soprano. It's not as free as the rest of the ensemble. The drummer likes Elvin a lot, or it is later Elvin. Seems too controlled, but the recording could be doing that. Those triplets definitely suggest at least an Elvin interest. A lighter touch, though. Maybe one of the Liebman bands. Recognize the tune, too. This may be buried in the archives. Track 8 Those keys have me thinking Chick Corea off the bat, but that seems too obvious. Nice 70s Jazz. The arrangement has tinges of Woody Shaw, but the flute says Art Webb to my ear. Track 9 I feel like I should know this. I like it, but it's somebody that's just off my regular radar. West-coastish sound. Maybe J.R. Monterose? Don't know, but it's real nice. Track 10 No idea, but not really holding my interest. Track 11 Hmmm... this test is taking a turn into electronica that I'm not sure I'm hearing. Yeah... this one doesn't resonate at all. Track 12 Aaaah.... rhythm. That's this. Man was a genius and deserves to be mentioned alongside Monk, Coltrane, Parker, Sun Ra, and Walt Dickerson (another unsung genius). This is Wiletta's Walk. He owned those odd meters. Track 13 Beautiful. Sounds like Kenny Barron doing a Monk tune, but I can't say which one. This is gorgeous. Track 14 I like that sound a LOT. This is somebody I should know, damnit. I'm going to kick myself when the answers come out. Sounds like one of the LA guys to me. Not Billie Harris, but someone like that. But a REALLY fat sound almost like Booker T. That pianist definitely sounds like one of the LA guys. Track 15 Hmmm... shades of Jimmy Knepper? Very thoughtful playing from the alto player, a bit of Konitz in the approach, but a warmer tone. Huh... I'm not familiar with this, but feel as though I should be. Really diggin' the piano. Shades of a sane Phineas and at time some Horace Parlan in there. Very interested in finding out what this is. Track 16 A lot of Eb in this one. Alto reminds me of late Louis Jordan. Hmm... Cecil Payne? Don't know this at all and I'm thinking I'm dead wrong about Cecil. Track 17 Sort of a sloppy Coltrane approach. Older... Cal Massey? No... Andrew White? A touch of George Coleman in the sound, but doesn't have GC's facility. Bitch of a head. Trumpet is very warm, which I didn't expect from the head. Dunno. Started strong, but beginning to hit hard times here. Track 18 Clean drum sound. Don't know the alto, but I'm guessing a younger guy. Maybe early Dave Douglas on trumpet? I'd enjoy something like this live -- obviously a lot of spontaneous interplay between the musicians. Maybe Ed Blackwell on drums. The sound had me thinking Cyrille early on, but this is more traditional and something about the precision has me thinking Blackwell. Could this be one of the sessions with Mark Helias? Track 19 Huh... I'm leaning Howard McGee, but not with any degree of confidence. Maybe Shelly Manne on drums? Track 20 Oh yeah! That's this, Dexter Rides again. One of my favorite records from childhood. Charles and Clifford play off each other perfectly throughout this, especially on Eronel. Ordinarily, I'm not a big Alan Dawson fan, but his very tight on this. And George Tucker has to be the most underrated bassist ever. Track 21 Initial impression was Jeff Coffin's band with Rod McGaha, but it's not them. Probably an "original" which leans heavily on What Is This Thing Called Love. Nice tune, though. Both of these horn players are their own people on this, even though you can hear their influences. This is the way Jazz should work. The harmonies are similar to some of Charles Brackeen's writing, but lack his rawness and bite. Track 22 This one lacks what I liked about the previous tune. Tenor has that totally generic, "recordable" sound that is completely inoffensive thus makes zero impression. Drums are hyper compressed. Reminds me a lot of Franklin Kiermeyer's recordings in that way. At 1:40, seriously considering the slider. Yeah, I'm out. Nothing in this for me. Track 23 Ah-ha... that gong actually sounds very familiar. Electro-violin... I was leaning Milford Graves up to that point. It's unique, but not really buying it. Track 24 Just realized I was four minutes into this and had nothing to say about it. Moving on. Track 25 Jack Bruce? Overall, a really outstanding BFT -- both challenging and enjoyable. Thanks!

Hit a brother up -- I'm in. Digital is the way to go!

Al, don't know if I ever got on the list again, but I'm still interested -- you name the month.

Month got away from me. I listened by lacked any semblance of clues. My apologies for not saying more sooner.

+1... as usual.

Hit me with a download, please.

quite possible.