Jim R

PM sent. I think there's a distinction to be made in terms of using the internet as a resource during the discussion phase. I think most of us do adhere to the original intent/concept of posting our impressions first without any research. Then there are those who read the thread before they post their guesses. Besides the intent/concept, I can't really understand this approach, because I would think it would take away the challenge/mystery/fun for that person. Anyway, it's generally been accepted that once a person posts their initial guesses/impressions, and the discussion gets going, it's okay to research things that are stumping everybody. If you're frowning on that for this test, I have no problem with that.

I thought this was pretty cool... for anybody that has time to go through it. B-) http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servle...-10019/season-1

I haven't seen the book, but this topic has gotten me kind of curious. Labeling of musicians is obviously sticky business, but I wouldn't have thought of Rosolino as a "bebopper" in the sense of being among the pioneers/active participants in that movement. I am a big Rosolino fan (really), but I've never closely looked at his early history. I know he was with a few bands before joining Kenton in '52, but I didn't think they were necessarily "bebop" bands. Obviously, Rosolino eventually showed himself to be one of the most technically gifted trombonists in jazz (playing bop and everything else at a level that drew the highest praise from all his peers, including J.J.), but maybe (as Nate suggests) this has more to do with Yanow's specific criteria for drawing lines between earlier bebop artists and later ones...?

That reminds me- some of the most insane shows I remember were the ones where Rickles and Rich were guests on the same night. ====== Joe Henderson on video... if memory serves, he was one of the performers on the "Carnegie Hall Salutes The Jazz Masters" show back in the 90's (I think he performed a Jobim tune for his feature); and he's on the "Jobim & Friends" concert (CD / DVD) on Verve from '93, with Jobim, Jon Hendricks, Herbie Hancock, Shirley Horn, Ron Carter and others. Also, wasn't he included in that "Tenor Titans" video hosted by Branford Marsalis years ago?

With all due respect, and not to take anything away from your recommendation, but... can we not start listing every guitar player who ever lived here? This type of "list" thread is already kind of diluted in a way (in terms of being able to focus on who's mentioned and hopefully generate some kind of discussion that will encourage people to actually investigate those players they're unfamiliar with). Just a thought. What about an "Overlooked rock guitarists" thread? B-)

I grew up with Johnny. I don't remember exactly when I started watching him regularly, but it was probably late 60's, when I got to be old enough where my parents didn't tell me when to go to bed. This came as a surprise to me (hadn't heard he was ill), and I think the emotion that overcame me was also a result of never really having pondered how much he impacted me. Like Jim said, his show was going downhill in the last few years, and I didn't watch (there may have been other factors involved at the time, besides the declining quality of the show... I don't recall). I missed the farewell show too. Always regretted that. It was fun to see some old clips on NBC and CNN tonight... brought back great memories. What an incredible era to have lived through... RIP

This type of thread idea (too broad, really) will not usually generate "discussion". It will generate a list. In this case, WAY too big a list to handle, IMO. If you had said from the start, for example, that you wanted suggestions for great piano performances on the Blue Note label, that might have been a way to generate a good discussion. If you want to "discuss", then the next step would be to ask Lon and Chuck more about the artists/titles that you're unfamiliar with. Or, you could choose to educate them about the titles you chose... Seriously, though, I would say that a narrower topic would work better. Even if there was universal agreement as to which albums best represented each pianist in jazz history, we'd be here until way after dark. B-)

Are you sure it wasn't used to control this?:

I just had a visit with Bill Gallagher, who put together Eddie's (as well as Sir Charles Thompson's) discography, and realized that I had never come back to this thread to post the new url for Bill's pages on Eddie. The new address (which will take you to a bio / index page) is: http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Artists/Higgins/index.html This new address features a complete song index as well as an index of all the artists that Eddie has worked with since 1956. There are two recent releases on Venus, "If Dreams Come True" and "Christmas Songs" (okay, I know this is poor timing ), both trios with Jay Leonhart and Joe Ascione. I believe these Venus discs can still be ordered directly from Eddie. Bill also tells me that there are at least four new recordings awaiting release in the coming year (not all on Venus).

Sorry but I remember I owned a damaged copy of Rough And Tumble for a short time and I think was a NY label. I am not definitely sure about it. Actually, Bill was talking about the cover. Coincidentally, I had a not so clean copy of R&T years ago, and one time I found a clean copy of the disc (no cover) at a flea market for a buck. I bought it because it was clean, and only realized when I got it home that it had a different (NY) label than my copy. I do remember that my jacket said Liberty on it. Note that sjarrell's (mentioned in the opening post) is a NY label also. Curious to me that the BN discography begins the "Liberty / United Artists Era" section with 'BOUT SOUL, which was well into 1967, and some 40 sessions after the date of the sale.

Exactly. This is all reminding me of the fact that after all these years, the manic collectors out there still haven't put out a list of actual release dates, or shall I say best estimates (at least I'm not aware of any, but then I'm no longer a vinyl hound). The old Down Beat ads generally come up as the way to attempt to trace the release history. But that will only tell you so much... And as Chuck and others have pointed out in the past, the folks employed in the manufacturing process didn't try to do things in a neat and tidy fashion that would make it simpler for future crazy people.

I was listening again to track 17 (America The Beautiful), and realized that the jazz-oriented player was very familiar. In fact, I recognized him positively this time. Then it occurred to me who the other player was, based on something I'd heard about them recording together (and then the other guy's tone really rang bells for me ). It's from this CD

Here's another BN info site. I notice that they take a scholarly approach, but don't attempt to state what the earliest release was on each version of the BN label. http://ronpenndorf.com/labelography.html

But THE JODY GRIND was 4250. Maybe what's confusing things is catalog numbers vs actual release dates. I'm no expert, I'm just trying to supply what info I can. I know that a lot of "collectors"- many of whom care more about label and jacket details than music (and I'm not aiming that at anybody here)- try to make a science of this kind of stuff. In many cases, it's not an exact science...

According to this site, Duke Pearson's SWEET HONEY BEE (4252) was the last of the original BN's, which would mean the initial release of a first pressing Liberty LP was 4253- Grant Green's STREET OF DREAMS. I don't know when they began using the Liberty label and jacket on earlier titles (they would have been using up the existing stock of older materials as well). In other words, I don't know if anybody really knows the answer to your question, unless you're talking about what was the initial "first pressing".

1. This has that familiar mid to late 60’s sound to it... could be a BN... is it Billy Higgins on drums? I gotta be honest, though- I don’t like this stuff very much. The music is groovy in a way, and I know a lot of folks dig this sound, but for me it just conjures up images of girls with WAY too much eye make-up, guys in tight pants exposing the ankles, people doing ridiculously stupid dances, and even bad movies (does anybody remember the theme to “The Ambushers” starring Dean Martin?). Having lived through that era (okay, even though I was only 10 in 1966), and having seen and heard a lot of these things, maybe I have more trouble with it than somebody who wasn’t born yet. Anyway, the beat is one thing, but when you add a melody with that type of rhythm to it, well, I just can’t take it. 2. “Moanin’”, of course. I don’t know who this is offhand, but this is a big improvement over track one, for me. 3. Funky Watermelon Man. Not my thing really, but not a bad version. Strange how it cuts off. 4. This was one of the more interesting tracks on the disc for me. Interesting, but not terribly enjoyable. Oh well. 5. Okay, I like orchestral music like this in general, so although this seems oddly placed on a BFT, it’s more listenable to me than some of the jazz I’ve heard. Having said that, this piece doesn’t do a lot for me melodically, and the choppiness of the arrangement is kind of distracting (there are some passages that sound pretty derivative, too, so I can’t give this very high marks). 6. That opening reminds me of some Gato Barbieri recordings I heard years ago (and didn’t like very much). That tone is obnoxious, IMO. This is kind of 70’s/80’s soundtrackish to my ears. 7. This is like walking into a party that’s already going full tilt. I feel rushed listening to this track. Not my cup of tea stylistically anyway, so... 8. This is one of my favorite Monk tunes- “Monk’s Mood”. This performance doesn’t really bring out the beauty for me. Sounds too loose. 9. A basic blues... nothing special, to my ears. Awfully short, and I’m not crazy about the guy’s tone. 10. Not that bad, not that good, kind of dull... distorted guitar is not my thing, and there’s little going on in this tune, so... 11. Well, I hope some others found this interesting/enjoyable... 12. This doesn’t do it for me. Very dated now, and I would rather listen to blues music that’s more “authentic”. There are a whole slew of rock bands that played blues, and there are very few that I can enjoy after going back and listening to the real thing. It’s got that artificial distorted guitar, too. 13. This is a little more like it, but I still can’t say it’s my thing. Kind of plodding. I do like the shifting from minor to major, though. Again, this one’s so short that it’s hard to get too interested. 14. A chicago bluesish take on “Work Song”. I have mixed feelings on this one. I like the overall sound and tightness of the band, but I hate that first guitar solo. Way too sloppy for my taste, and although it does have some nice intensity, he also gives off a sort of “trying too hard” impression to my ears. The harp player is good, if not great on this. Keyboard player is okay, the second guitar solo is okay. Again, this comes across as kind of rock guys doing the blues, at least to my ears. I wouldn’t buy it. 15. Another very simple blues rhythm. A familiar theme- “Sack O Woe”, except without the cool uptempo bridge that Cannonball used. This is solid, if unspectacular. 16. This is based on “Willow weep for me”, but they take heavy liberties with the melody from the start. Very nice relaxed bluesy treatment by a very competent pianist... and nice to hear an acoustic piano after the previous tracks! Don’t know who this is. 17. Wow, that’s very pretty. I’ve never heard this before. Nice solo opening arrangement, and believe me, unless you’re a natural genius, this is HARD to do on the guitar. So my hat’s off. Now that the other players kick in, it kind of reminds me of some of the old Chester (Atkins) and Lester (Paul) stuff. It doesn’t quite sound like them in terms of the solos, though, just that type of approach. Damn... I might be able to figure out who this is, but right now it’s not ringing any bells. 18. A tambourine is usually a bad sign for me, but I like the opening on this. The piano solo is groovin’, while the bass and percussion are steady in support. This has a sort of country feel to it, but I don’t recognize the tune. I wouldn’t buy this either, but I enjoyed it. 19. NOW you’re talkin. Whew, I did enjoy that. I don’t own anything like this, but I appreciate a great player when I hear one. This guy knows what to do with a guitar. He’s got nice technique, great (and I do mean great) command of his axe, and he’s a tasty musician to boot. I may have heard this before, but I can’t really recall. I’m not a “county” guy in general, but this theme is extremely catchy. The improvisation is musical, and everything is happening, including the tone of the guitar as he switches pickup settings in mid-flight. I’m impressed. If I had to guess, I’d say Eric Johnson... but I know that guys like Danny Gatton and Roy Buchanan did some things like this too (and Junior Brown). Whoever it is, I might have to think about pickin (no pun intended) up a CD. 20. “Where or When” in a 50’s vocal group style. Never heard this before... that style was just a few years before my time. Not really my thing, and I can’t say I would choose to listen to this anyway, knowing that I’ve got many versions of this tune in my collection by various jazz greats. 21. Can’t get into it. Thanks Dana.

Alaska??? It's a perfectly sound idea if he lived in any number of inner city areas in the lower 48... but why would he need that thing in ALA-... Oh... wait...

> - Steeplechase CD: SCCD 36011 - Scandia Skies - Kenny Dorham (ldr) = 1993 > - Steeplechase CD: SCCD 36015 - I Want More - Dexter Gordon (ldr) = 1990

Haven't seen any Shorter or McLean yet, but I'll keep my eyes open. I've watched a few more things over the past couple of days, and thought I'd bring this thread back up. It's frustrating not to have a useful menu guide for this channel, and I still don't surf in very often, but when I do I'm still being surprised from time to time. The other day I saw part of a segment called "Studio Jams". I didn't catch all of the players' names, but it was a quintet that included Joey DeFranceso, Larry Carlton, and Byron Landham (sp?). It was actually pretty interesting. They let the tape roll in between songs a bit, and you got a sense of what's it's like to be at a recording session. I also caught a nice Basie documentary that I had never seen before; and part of an old Frank Sinatra show, which took me by surprise (I would have expected this to turn up on PBS, but not BET). This particular clip stunk, but I could envision something better next time (it was an older version of his show, in b&w). There's been some nice solo piano features recently. I saw Benny Green yesterday (playing his ass off), and about a week ago I watched a Cyrus Chestnut performance that was very, very good. Today I saw the tail end of a James Moody performance (looked like 1980's or 90's era). I KNOW I would have dug that. What immediately followed was a show called "Uncut", hosted by Willard Jenkins (BTW, can anybody tell me about this guy? Is he for real? I get some weird vibes from him, for some reason... but I haven't seen that much of him yet). This particular half hour was devoted to videos of tenor players, which included Fathead Newman (fairly recent quartet performance); Ernie Watts (w/Haden's Quartet West); Tim Warfield; and Joe Lovano. Maybe I've been lucky lately, but I haven't seen a whole lot of smooth jazz when I've tuned in. I also get the impression that they've invested in quite a bit of good to excellent quality video material from various eras that I've never had the opportunity to see anywhere else. I'm going to keep checking them out. All it takes is a gem here and there to make it worth the effort.

I try not to keep a wish list, because I'm trying to control my CD habit (hey it's a GOAL B-) ). I do, however, occasionally jot things down (like when I hear something great on the radio). I also have a short list of OJC's I'm still planning to go after at some point in the not too distant future. My method? Pencil and paper, baby.

"Dr. Jazz, Ph.D." ? What does "international music" refer to in this case? Anyway, congrats and best of luck. I'd like to check it out sometime, but I'm still on a dialup connection...

I think STREET (not streets) OF DREAMS is definitely a stronger album than IWTHYH. SOD (apoligies to any brits who may be reading this) has a better set of songs for Grant to sing, IMO. It's got a nice consistent vibe (no pun intended) running through it, while IWTHYH has some weak spots for me (the title track, as well as "Corcovado")...(and I've got nothing against Jobim tunes!). I haven't played it in awhile, so maybe I'd agree with Nate about Stella as well...

Agustín, If you still need more dates, it would be helpful if you could edit out those titles for which you already have the info you needed. In other words, maybe you could post an updated list of what you're still looking for (it's time-consuming to cross reference these posts). B-)

Yeah... I know this isn't one of those discs that's in everybody's collection, but 2 (going on 3) responses...?