Jim R

I've admired her for a number of years for a variety of reasons, but have never quite gotten off the fence. I enjoy her voice, her piano playing, love her choice of material... but I find myself gettng anxious when I listen to her. I WANT to get used to that s........................l..........................o.............................wwwwwwwwwwwwwww delivery, but so far I've been unable to do so. It might happen if I keep trying, though. And I probably should. She has SO much going for her. My curisosity about this disc (which I never knew existed) caused me to look up the particulars, so as long as I'm at it, here they are: Date: October 1987 Location: Mapleshade Studio, Glenn Dale, MD Label: Audiophile ldr - Shirley Horn; p - Shirley Horn; eb - Charles Ables; d - Steve Williams; v - Shirley Horn a. 01 Since I Fell For You - 07:13 (Buddy Johnson) b. 02 You're My Thrill - 04:20 (Sidney Clare, Jay Gorney) c. 03 How Long Has This Been Going On - 07:05 (George Gershwin, Ira Gershwin) d. 04 My, How The Time Goes By - 05:12 (Cy Coleman, Carolyn Leigh) e. 05 Estaté (Summer) [original or English lyric ver. 1] - 08:38 (Bruno Brighetti, Bruno Martino, Joel Siegel) f. 06 Forget Me - 03:37 (Valerie Parks Brown) g. 07 I Watch You Sleep - 06:35 (Richard Rodney Bennett, Joel Siegel) h. 08 Softly, As I Leave You - 03:00 (Hal Shaper, Antonio DeVita, Giorgio Calabrese) i. 09 Dindi - 06:10 (Antonio Carlos Jobim, Ray Gilbert, Aloysio Oliveira) All titles on: - Audiophile CD: ACD-224 - Softly (1988)

Intersting stuff, Jim. What did you think about Daniel's mono/stereo observations? There may be something to that in terms of figuring out a place and time, but I can't quite see this recording dating to the early 60's, based on what the saxophonist is doing (I'm hearing a lot of early 60's Coltrane influence on this). I would have thought there would have to be a delay of at least a few years for this altoist to be reflecting that. I could well be wrong, though, what with the natural ability some players have of copping styles quickly...

I came across Ward's name too, during some web searching. I had heard of him, but I know ZERO about him. Same with Kenyatta, actually. The thing that still puzzles me is what the age of that recording is. At first I assumed it was vintage late 60's, but when I began to think about how influential the music of that period was, it occurred to me that it could have been recorded much later (not unlike the situation with #11). I don't know why, but I've been kind of leaning toward europe on this one all along. It's just a hunch- I can't base it on anything, really. The only european altoist that I could think of right off the bat was Jaques Pelzer, but I guess he's too early to fit with this style. At any rate, Jim, I wonder if we've exhausted the possibilities of that aforementioned "series" (the one that #3 came from)... I guess those are all probably too early, though...

Daniel, that's cool- I've never heard of him, but I just had a hunch about his location.

Hey Noj, in a perfect world, I can imagine having you paint (or sketch) something to correspond to each track- now THAT would be cool! B) Call me greedy...

Daniel, regarding track 14... is there any chance that the pianist is from your country? B) I knew I was probably off when I mentioned Rubalcaba and Ozone (dead silence followed ), and I assume that this is a player I've never heard before. Anyway, sure- post a link! We're about to get the answer anyway, so you might as well tell us!

NO WAY! Seriously, Noj, I enjoyed your analysis. You provided some interesting insights (personal though some may have been) into the music itself, and I think that's refreshing. We could all do more of that, giving our personal feelings about how the performances make us feel, etc.

Daniel, I understand your idea and I think it may have merit. Ideally, it would be best if the timing was even for everyone, so your idea may prove to be a good one. The thing is, no matter how long we wait to start the discussion, there will inevitably be some posters who will manage to post their thoughts before many of the others (in other words, some posters are inevitably going to find the discussion well underway by the time they are able/ready to make their first post). So, I'm not sure that it really makes much difference. I think we have learned from the first test that people should really give the disc some careful listening and considerable thought before they decide to open the discussion thread and begin reading the comments of others (that is, if they want to avoid being influenced/helped with the thought process). Everybody will have their own preferences and approaches to this, I think, and that's how it should be.

Looking forward to it, Dan!

A couple of thoughts. First, to me, the "competetive" factor has to do with testing myself to see how many I can figure out. Some may come quickly, others may take more time to "click". So, when Jim Sangrey said "I take these tests seriously", I know what he means. It's a challenge. A personal challenge. But the idea of competing against other board members and keeping score, well, I don't think it's necessary and could prove to be detrimental to the overall atmosphere, if you know what I mean. Male egos, you know... Secondly, what's this about using the "honor system" here? That is, why would it apply here and not on the main discussion thread? I think it already does, so I don't really get the point of setting up a separate thread. In the end, it's up to each individual to decide if they want to be honest to themselves. There's no way to control that unless we go overboard and "police" the whole test somehow. So, if I'm missing something here, please explain it to me. From reading the posts ahead of mine here, it doesn't look like people want to make an actual competition out of this, but I'll agree that if somebody does want to go that route, that's cool...

Alan, I also want to thank you for the Cadence link. $20 is a lot better than $30 or $35, ordered from Japan! I might also mention again (it's been awhile since I posted it) that if anybody is interested in the Eddie Higgins titles, Eddie sometimes has copies to sell. I bought a couple from him for $15 each awhile back. He's also a really nice guy and seems to enjoy writing letters (no computers for E.H.). I have both his summer and winter addresses, for anybody who's interested. On a related topic, has anybody else struggled to get information from the VENUS RECORDS website? Between the fact that it's almost entirely in Japanese and their apparent (?) choice not to list all of the CD's they've issued, I'm pulling my hair out. Even what they do list doesn't seem very well organized (difficult to find/identify the links you want). Maybe I should see how many are listed at AMG...

Gibson did do some custom-order guitars with CC pickups, but you're right- the instrument in my avatar (it was up on eBay some time ago, which is where I got the image) began life in 1957 as an acoustic L-5CN. The original owner had the CC pickup custom-installed in 1959. The late 50's was a time when the CC pickup had a resurgence in popularity, and a lot of the old stock of those pickups were made available by Gibson for such customizations. They also put out a very small run of L-4's (an acoustic archtop that looks like an ES-175 without pickups) with CC pickups, and those are extremely rare. If you don't have it already, pick up Kenny Burrell's "Moten Swing" CD (reissue of the old "Bluesin' Around" album on Columbia). He used an L-5 with a CC on several tracks on that. A heavenly sounding guitar... especially in HIS hands.

OH... Sorry, George- you fooled me AGAIN!!

... oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were my magic act assistant. She sawed me in half, and I'm a little upset about it. Well, never mind. Have a nice day... HEY, what happened to the other half of your right arm!!??

I think it's reasonable, Tony- especially if you make it abundantly clear in your thread title that the answers are contained therein. Dan, I think sooner would be fine too. I don't know that we'll need two weeks to discuss things after Tony reveals...

No apology necessary on the name thing, my friend. Re Leo Wright, I do have him in some south o' the border settings. They all date from 1962 (a couple of sessions with Lalo Schifrin- great stuff, BTW, with Clark Terry, Jimmy Cleveland, Jerome Richardson, Jimmy Raney and others; and one with Oscar's quartet and the great Milton Banana at the bateria). Leo's using flute on many of the tracks, and for the most part it's more samba than jazz in terms of rhythms. Bottom line: nothing as post-Trane modern sounding as our #7...

I'm a fan of Charlap, and I've been aware of these from looking at the Venus website (another great pianist, Eddie Higgins records for them, and that's what led me there initially). I haven't heard them, and I haven't wanted to pay the big bucks and go through the special order hassle. If they were available at my local brick&mortar stores, I would own them by now. At least I've been able to track down some of Charlap's work on other labels.

I gave it some thought, Jim, but nothing really leaps out at me yet. Victor Assis Brasil (alto) could have recorded something like this, but that seems a bit of a longshot to me. I'm not sure what Brazilian pianist would be a match here, and I'm even less sure about naming a drummer. I'm pretty confident I've never heard this recording, and the style of it is a touch more modern that most of the Brazjazz material I have. That doesn't mean I don't think it's possible that there are Brazilians involved here, but I can't yet suggest any names... BTW, no "s" at the end of my last name.

I voted for choice #2. I like the way we're doing it now. I think Tony's test was just about perfect (so, I don't think the total number of tracks HAS to be 6-10, but that's a decent ballpark suggestion by Dan).

I love this kind of stuff, and I've seen a lot of sites similar to this, but never saw this one. This is ULTRA cool, from what I've seen so far (not that much yet, because the pages full of images take forever to load on my system). A LOT of those 10" LP covers are ones I've never seen on the internet (and several of them I've never seen ANYWHERE!). Thanks alot, Mike.

FWIW, an update/recap on the current test: Solved: #'s 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 11 (links to the answers provided earlier in this thread). Unsolved: #'s 1, 5, 7, 10, 12, 13, 14. The "theme" of the test has also been divulged above, so if you'd rather not know (and haven't already read the whole thread), don't read it all until you've had a chance to guess. B)

What Trumpet Guy said. I happen to not enjoy players using effects myself, but it's a big world. To me, and for my ears, there is a GREAT deal of subtle difference in the sounds created by many (most) of the great players who have eschewed the use of effects. I've said it before, but I even appreciate and differentiate between the various tones achieved by a individual artists (Kenny Burrell is a good example) who changed their equipment over the years. KB's early recordings (the BN and Prestige material recorded with a Gibson ES-175 with P-90 pickups) sound completely different from his 60's work with a D'Angelico New Yorker. So, there's a lot of subtlety to be explored even if we're only talking about guys who just plugged straight into an amp. Tony, I was with you on the Grant Green comment (Grant's classic sound involved the use of a tube amp, the appeal of which for many players is it's ability to distort naturally, just enough to provide a "warmth" that solid state amps generally do not achieve); and I'm sort of with you on the Joe Pass comment (he did get a distinctly "clean" sound by the period you refer to, but I'm not sure I would say he was the "only" player to do so... but we'd be getting into subjective territory I suppose, and who's gonna care anyway ); Regarding Wes, he really got a lot of natural distortion, to my ears. It's especially evident when Wes played chords. For a long time, in fact, his sound was too "dirty" for my prefernces (until I realized that I had no choice but to get used to it and LIKE IT ). As usual on a guitar topic, I digress. Let the effects lovers do their thing, I say.

Hear Hear!

Oh, maaaan, did you HAVE to remind me of that? Now I want to go get a hamburger for 15 cents.

Tony, I think Dan was referring to the current ability we have to link to AMG pages to "discreetly" give the answers during the initial discussion phase- before the test leader divulges all the answers. As I see it, this isn't really an issue, because most any recording that might be chosen for a BF test can be linked via other sites (discographies, CD retailers, artist websites, etc).