mikeweil

My thoughts exactly!

Never got to the Teagarden tracks until today ... ..... he was a very good, entertaining singer, too.

At least there are no such tracks listed in the Prestige disco by Ruppli, which is not always totally accurate, as we know. Prestige/OJC reissues were not consistent - sometimes they added tracks, sometimes not, other sessions were re-assembled to complete form, others reissued in the scattered pattern of the LPs. It's much less effort to pull out an old LP master tape and re-release it 1-to-1 instead of consulting the disco - I bet most people now working at Universal never even heard of it. I think it would be better (and much more affordable) to split it into three or four boxes. We allready have the Stitt box, which includes all of the Ammons/Stiit band; another with 78 era stuff; one with all the jam sessions including the early ones with Stitt and the later ones with Trane; and one or two with the albums featuring Ammons as the main soloist. I'd most likely go for these, but not for a monster box. That series had several nice re-compilations of scattered material. Like the 1940's Stitt sessions - only to be surpassed by the box set. I still have the Carroll/Jefferson/Ross LP, because there never was a CD with all of these tracks.

Mosaic sent a replacement disc - everything's fine now, and the music is great. Wasn't aware that the Duke recorded some real jive stuff as the last session on disc two. I often enjoy the small groups more than the big band stuff.

Thanks for the update - was aware of his move to Spain and his first outing with Los Piratas del Flamenco: ... as well as the following two outings with El Comando de la Clave: A late friend gave me his first big band LP, which I can recommend for any Gonazlez aficionado, it made me think that the big band fits his style even better than the Fort Apache Band format; but I was not aware that this was an ongoing collaboration, will check it out. The first CD was issued twice: .... and this is the new one: Nice to see that the story continues. Will check out your other recommendations, too.

Mine was looking like sidewinder's - their boxes used to be sturdier, and bubble wrap much more. ..... sigh ....

The Annie Ross disc is real cheap now, so I ordered a copy plus the Bennie Maupin.

I have quite a number of them burned to CD, if that helps. Will bring the bags up from the basement later today and post a list.

Back to one of my favourite whites:

Seconded!

Some of the nicest twelve minutes I have been spending in quite a while! Thanks for posting. Wish there was more ...

Okay, here's what Chombo recorded with Cal Tjader: Date: November 20, 1957 Location: New York City Label: Fantasy Mas Ritmo Caliente Cal Tjader (ldr), Gerald Sanfino (f, as), José "Chombo" Silva (ts), Cal Tjader (vib), Vince Guaraldi (p), Bobby Rodriguez (b), Luis Kant (gui, cwb), Willie Bobo [William Correa] (tim), Armando Peraza (bgo), Ramon "Mongo" Santamaria (cga) a. Perdido - 7:01(Juan Tizol, Ervin Drake, Hans Lengsfelder) Beat Goes Public LP 12"BGP 1003 — Cal's Pals b. Mongorama - 6:20(Ramon "Mongo" Santamaria) Rhino CD R2 75689 — Sklin On Skin: The Mongo Santamaria Anthology (1958-1995) c. Perfidia Cha Cha - 8:12(Alberto Dominguez) All titles on: Fantasy LP 12"3-262 — Mas Ritmo Caliente Fantasy LP 12"8003 — Mas Ritmo Caliente Fantasy LP 12"F-24712 — Los Ritmos Calientes Fantasy CD FCD-24712-2 — Los Ritmos Calientes Victor (Japan) CD VICJ-23133 — Los Ritmos Calientes Date: December 1958 Location: The Blackhawk, San Francisco, California Label: Fantasy A Night At The Blackhawk Ramon "Mongo" Santamaria, Cal Tjader (ldr), José "Chombo" Silva (ts), Cal Tjader (vib, cwb), Vince Guaraldi (p), Al McKibbon (b), Willie Bobo [William Correa] (d, tim), Ramon "Mongo" Santamaria (bgo, cga) a. Stompin' At The Savoy - 5:16(Edgar Sampson, Chick Webb, Benny Goodman) Fantasy LP 12"3-283 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy LP 12"8026 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy CD FCD-24755-2 — Black Hawk Nights b. I Hadn't Anyone Till You - 8:01(Ray Noble) Fantasy LP 12"3-283 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy LP 12"8026 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy CD FCD-24755-2 — Black Hawk Nights c. Bill B. - 12:02(Cal Tjader) Fantasy LP 12"3-283 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy LP 12"8026 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy CD FCD-24755-2 — Black Hawk Nights d. Blue And Sentimental - 2:55(Count Basie, Jerry Livingston, Mack David) Fantasy LP 12"3-283 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy LP 12"8026 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy CD FCD-24755-2 — Black Hawk Nights e. I Love Paris - 4:29(Cole Porter) Fantasy LP 12"3-283 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy LP 12"8026 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy CD FCD-24755-2 — Black Hawk Nights f. A Night In Tunisia - 9:07(Dizzy Gillespie, Frank Paparelli) Fantasy LP 12"3-283 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy LP 12"8026 — A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy LP 12"8079 — Latino Con Cal Tjader Fantasy LP 12"F-24732 — Latino! Fantasy CD FCD-24732-2 — Latino! Fantasy CD FCD-24755-2 — Black Hawk Nights Real Gone Jazz CDRGJCD441 — Cal Tjader - Eight Classic Albums Vol. 2 g. The Lady Is A Tramp - 4:32(Richard Rodgers, Lorenz Hart) Fantasy LP 12"3-289 — Tjader Goes Latin Fantasy LP 12"8030 — Tjader Goes Latin Fantasy LP 12"F-24730 — Black Orchid Fantasy CD FCD-24730-2 — Black Orchid Real Gone Jazz CDRGJCD277 — Cal Tjader - Eight Classic Albums Cheesecake Records CDDTJ 8245 — Demasiado Caliente h. Guajira At The Blackhawk - 5:20(Ramon "Mongo" Santamaria) Fantasy LP 12"3-289 — Tjader Goes Latin Fantasy LP 12"8030 — Tjader Goes Latin Fantasy LP 12"F-24730 — Black Orchid Fantasy CD FCD-24730-2 — Black Orchid Real Gone Jazz CD RGJCD277 — Cal Tjader - Eight Classic Albums Cheesecake Records CD DTJ 8245 — Demasiado Caliente i. Mazacote - 10:33(Ramon "Mongo" Santamaria) Fantasy LP 12"3-291 — Mongo! Fantasy LP 12"8032 — Mongo! Fantasy LP 12"F-8373 — Mongo's Greatest Hits Prestige LP 12"P-24018 — Afro Roots Prestige CD PCD-24018-2 — Afro Roots Fantasy CD FCD-24735-2 — Mongo's Greatest Hits Ramon "Mongo" Santamaria (ldr) on i, (bgo) on e, i, (cga) on a, e-i; Cal Tjader (ldr) on a-h, (cwb) on a, e-f; Willie Bobo [William Correa] (d) on b-d, (tim) on a, e-i. Track i. was issued under Mongo Santamaria's name (it is an extended feature for his conga and bongo soloing), but all details support it was recorded at this Cal Tjader Blackhawk session Date: December 1958 Location: San Francisco, California Label: Fantasy Tjader Goes Latin Cal Tjader (ldr), José "Chombo" Silva (ts), Cal Tjader (vib), Vince Guaraldi (p), Al McKibbon (b), Willie Bobo [William Correa] (tim, bgo), Ramon "Mongo" Santamaria (cga) a. Close Your Eyes - 3:11(Bernice Petkere) b. Contigo - 2:40(Pedro Flores) c. Happiness Is A Thing Called Joe - 3:44(E. Y. Harburg, Harold Arlen) d. Out Of Nowhere - 3:26(Johnny Green, Edward Heyman) All titles on: Fantasy LP 12"3-289 — Tjader Goes Latin Fantasy LP 12"8030 — Tjader Goes Latin Fantasy LP 12"F-24730 — Black Orchid Fantasy CD FCD-24730-2 — Black Orchid Real Gone Jazz CD RGJCD277 — Cal Tjader - Eight Classic Albums Cheesecake Records CD DTJ 8245 — Demasiado Caliente Cal Tjader (vib) on a, d.

If you had been listening to and playing as much Cuban music as you have been listening to and playing jazz, you probably would.

Out-of-this-world shapes, too .....

There are not enough Chombo recordings, definitely - I will try to post a list of Tjader and Mongo albums he can be heard on later this weekend. And don't forget his violin chops - he fused jazz stylistics with phrasings from típica violinists. Actually, he started as a violinist; Peruchín talked him into picking up the saxophone.

I'd say it depends: 1- on the soloists, their background, what they feel comfortable in (some "jazz" horn players feel restricted by the more definite rhythmic structures of Cuban music (maybe because they're not familiar enough with them): 2- on the focus of the band as a whole. The Fort Apaches sound more like a jazz band to me, with the added color and possibility of Cuban rhythms, but really a modern jazz band between Miles and Blakey, and that's why they chose rumba as a basis, since that is open enough and closer to modern jazz rhythms (people like Elvin took some inspiration from bell and cascara patterns). Bands led by more Cuban based players use more definite rhythm models, where you have no choice but lock into clave, or you sound like some uninitiated guy meandering over exotic rhythms. The latter is possible, with great results - listen to the stylistically very different soloists guesting with the Machito Orqesta. But you have to make your choice. For players with a "Latin" background, the choice is clear, in most cases, they are used to lock into clave. For "jazz" players, it is more or less an adopted foreign language. I hope my idea comes through.

Judging from the video, those trumpet players were having a ball!

Will do!

Mine arrived last week, had to pick it up at the customs - they don't believe the $ 20 value declaration anymore ... Great set, will never regret it, and my wife likes it, too.

I'll take February, 2017, please.

The one aspect about Jerry Gonzalez' approach that bothers me a little is the dominance of "Rumba" - there are so many other Cuban rhythms/dances that would fit one or the other Monk tune a little better. In one case, "Jackie-ing", he went so far as to change the rhythm of one Monk phrase to make it fit the rumba clave better - no need to do that. Don't mess with Monk's rhythms, please - they are an integral part of the tunes. Maybe I am a bit over-critical - I once had plans for a band with two horns, bass, congas, and timbales to play Monk tunes - at least a third of all known Monk compositions fit perfectly to Cuban rhythms. (There even is an uncredited clave player on the Prestige trio recording of "Bye-Ya".) But the horn players I approached wouldn't bite, there was no bassist around with proper knowledge of Cuban tumbao, and my percussionist partner fell ill (and passed away last summer). I would have done it with a wider array of Cuban rhythms. But what the Apaches do with their fusion of a mid-sixties Miles concept and rumba, is great. All the guys in this band were great. Steve Berrios ... he layed the foundation for all Latin/Jazz fusion drummers to come.

Great little film - what elegant, relaxed dances! Today's Casino style dancers look more like they do it for a workout.

I'm with you all - "Salsa" as a sales term, that's it, more or less. As long as we stay aware of this, it is okay. The members of this forum are minds critical enough to avoid the traps of such categories.

Oh well ... glad I have a copy of the LP.