Soul Stream

There's a guy in Dallas named Tommy Young, a guy in his 50's who is buddies with Jimmy Smith. They hung quite a bit. Tommy uses pedals and is a "real" guy. Other than that, there's another guy, Eric Scortia who Jsngry probably knows. I haven't seen him, but knows he's plays with Marchel Ivery and is a "complete" organist so to speak I believe. Other than those guys "Red" Young is in Dallas and is the best pedal guys I've every seen. Playing whole uptempo numbers on pedals only. So that guy needs to go out more! To my surprise, there are 3 (to my knowledge, maybe more) guys in the Austin area who are great old timers. Bill Tanner, James Polk and Joe Killian (who replaced Baby Face Willette at the Moraccan Lounge in Chicago).

There are basically three schools of playing the bass pedals. The pre-Jimmy Smith guys usually played all bass lines on the pedals. The bass pedals on the Hammond are notoriously "flubby" sounding compared to real organ pedals, but they do the job. Jimmy Smith developed a technique that I call "shadowing". Not sure if that's the common name for it. Basically, you play the bass with your left hand and shadow those notes with the pedals, tapping the pedal at the beginning of each note to create a staccato effect. The idea is to make the bassline sound more like an acoustic bass which is plucked. Tapping the bass pedal, but not holding it down, at the front of your left hand bass line simulates the plucking and gives the line what we like to call "the hump". Every now and then you lay into the pedals and sustain the note and it creates a nice effect. Jimmy Smith really only played all pedals on ballads and such. It's not to say that he couldn't, but the technique he developed leads to a more defined, more swingin' bassline. The last school is to not play pedals at all. Guys like Larry Goldings, Sam Yahel, and Larry Young. Larry Young did play bass pedals when he was copying Jimmy Smith (on his Prestige dates, for instance) and he used them for accenting here and there, but overall he does not use them like Jimmy. Goldings is much the same. Yahel uses them sparsely as well. Personally I prefer the shadowing technique. I think it provides a better feel and more tonal options. Check out this thread for more history of the organ: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...topic=4239&st=0 Yes Jim, people are always so concerned about the bass pedals. Whether or not you're playing them and how much. Funny how most don't know what the pedals if SOUND like compared to the "normal" left has bass settings. I love the pedals, but in my book, some players use the pedals TOO MUCH where it becomes annoying. I find myself doing this when I have somebody(s) sitting right next to the organ and watching my feet. They want to know how the pedals work, and I want to show them!!! But, I find the pedals can get overbearing to the music if you're not doing it with taste. They're like spice, a little bit goes a long way. And of course, many of the best players in the world hardly or never use them, including most all of the new guys. My theory is most of the younger guys learned on organ simulator synths, and therefore don't know about the pedals. Heck, the guy from Soulive doesn't use the pedals at all and now uses a synth on top of the organ for his bass. And he kicks ass. However, I'm from the old school in the sense that I think you need to know organ bass pedals. Because it's part of how you REALLY play jazz organ. There are times, like ballads, where that's you're whole bass because you're chording with one hand and playing lines with the other. THAT'S a beautiful feeling that all organists should experience. Plus, it's really not that damn hard. Guys psych themselves out with the pedals. Leon Spencer Jr. gave me some great pedal advice..."When you start to play pedals, spend 20 minutes a day playing lefthand bass and pedals in unison while LOOKING at both." That is really good advice that works to get your bearings on them. Also, another organ guru when I first started gave me great advice..."When you first get on the organ, forget about the pedals for a while. You got too much other shit you gotta worry about." And that's true as well.

Just up for a little visibility. Wondered if anybody had a chance to hear this since the original post.

It's a real crime that this format of audio storage is becoming an antique. Like the tube, it's an intergral part of what makes music sound good. Digital has come a long way, and we'll never go back. But imho, recording on digital and then recording the final mix on 1/4 inch magnetic tape is a vital part of making things sound good to the human ear. The problem now is new engineers aren't even hip to magnetic tape. Aligning the tape heads, cleaning the machine, those are becoming a thing of the past. This is all bad news to me.

Those Benson on Columbia are just "so-so" in relation to the Benson/Lonnie Smith collaborations on Blue Note. Although I've talked to some who really swear by them. IMHO they fall into that catagory of jazz album where the solos are kept extremely short or are extremely edited to keep the songs 3 minutes plus. Not too much of a fan of that. To me, Alligator Bogaloo and Midnight Creeper are just superior in all respects. Although I would have liked to have heard the band w/Cuber doing standards like that on Blue Note...now THAT would have been great. As it was, that band was castrated on Columbia.

Johnny "Hammond" Smith's early recordings are all w/ a standup bass. One of my favorites of his in the catagory is "All Soul." A great, great LP.

You're right. Boop Bop Bing Bash is DEFINATELY it! I don't know what I was thinking (although Mary Had A Little Lamb is killer, it's almost more Grant's song than anybody's)! Braith-A-Way is also neck and neck, and I really dig Billy's solo on that one. That tune sure ain't no run of the mill blues structure. As far as Patterson goes, he did so many GREAT tunes, I think everybody would have a different take. However, since his "The Exciting Organ Of" seems to be the LP, I thought something off that might have to be it, but...you really DO like the Good Life of that. (I actually prefer his second version of "The Good Life" on Muse B-) ).

Yes, people most think of Don as "The Bebop Organist." Which is certainly true. However, he may also be THE best ballads organists as well. (Although most acknowledge Johnny Hammond Smith as the "best" in the ballad department.) That all said, like Jim mentioned earlier in another thread, "The Good Life" is certainly a high water mark for organ balladry. As is "Starry Night" imho.

Well,,,er...ummm...guess I left out Wild Bill Davis too, now that you mention it....and um, Milt Buckner...and...um....oh, yeah did I mention this was a 50's-60's ONLY thread.

Well, that's true. But it seems like if you have to pick one song to represent Don Patterson, it damn sure better be uptempo bop!!!!

I think we're all assuming that it is: Various Artists - Blue Note Perfect Takes - CD+DVD (Blue Note RVG Edition) Mar 2005 — Recording engineer Rudy van Gelder's favorite tunes from the RVG series; plus a bonus DVD featuring an interview with Rudy mentioned over at Jazzmatazz In other words, ANOTHER way to get you to buy Blue Train all over again.

Don Patterson "S'bout Time" is on the list.... (you think i'm crazy!?) Since posting the list I have noticed Jimmy Smith's only on once! And McGriff, Baby Face, Patton and Lonnie Smith are on twice (but for damn good reason), So something might have to be taken off for one of JOS's. Jimmy was the master player, but as far as SONGS go aside from some standout blues like "The Sermon", ect. Of course that means you have to narrow that down to one...Hmmm... I guess "Blues for J" would rank up there as would "O.G.D" or about a billion more...so I get a little stumped with Jimmy. Honestly...a top 50 might even be hard.

You're right. It IS super cheesy and super fake. Somehow, it doesn't seem to bother me. I even kind of dig it, especially Jack's fake little intros like into "Whistle While You Work." And though it's considered Jack's most famous album, it's not my personal favorite. "Tough Duff" is my favorite Jack LP. Just one note on "Live"...it IS live...recorded at the Front Room in Newark. Of that I have no doubt. RVG would never have allowed his Leslie to be driven THAT hard. But, the added "fake" intros and outros are pretty horrid.

Hey,....great choice!!! I haven't checked the AOW in quite a while, so I hope you'll forgive my tardiness. I think Dana did a great job on the blow by blow, songwise. So I'll not go there. Just a few general comments. First off, this is one of the greatest organ quartets ever recorded. Obviously Stitt, Patterson and James were a unit. And, as we all know, Grant was organ-guitarist number one. So this is quite a combination to say the least. Patterson.... What can be said about this guy that we don't already know? Not much. He's just simply Jimmy Smith's only TECHNICAL equal. Technique, Patterson has it more than anyone sans Jimmy. And from the stories I've heard from other organists, only used 3 fingers on his right hand for soloing (thumb, forefinger, middle). However he did it, it's amazing to hear that kind of velocity on the organ. Also, I've heard he was one of the few organists that actually "ghosted" all the bass notes on the pedals. However I say it, it's clear that Don was in TOTAL command of that mighty beast. And I mean at all times. As a listener, it's clear that he has great ability, even to novice ears. But to organ players like myself, he's the guy that really blows your mind! This CD is special because of this Patterson/James/Grant/Stitt combination. Other than that, it's just run of the mill "greatness" that we come to expect from Don. A few highlight for me from an album that's packed with them... Don's FULL ORGAN (meaning all stops pulled out) solo on "Starry Night." Don was a master of this and, to me ears, really did it better than anybody (sorry Jimmy). Tune Up....Don in full bebop mode, blazing. Just Friends...I love Don and Sonny's interplay on the head. Also, this is just textbook organ, as good of jazz that cam be played on the instrument. He's SO damn concise. Much like Sonny, Don's SO good it becomes to sound too perfect to the human ear. Not mine, he's BURNING AND BEAUTIFUL here. Good Bait...great tune that should be done by organists more. John Patton used to play this as well. Don's basslines are perfect here as usual. Something Don doesn't get credit for that much. He had "perfect" basslines...crisp, logical and solid, and always musical. Donnybrook...it's cool to hear Don get funky. He wasn't the FUNKIEST organist like say a Leon Spencer Jr., but I DIG his brand of funk. Real cool.

Insanity. I just bought a brand new vinyl reissue for $12.00. I bet they sound the same.

You're right. It IS super cheesy and super fake. Somehow, it doesn't seem to bother me. I even kind of dig it, especially Jack's fake little intros like into "Whistle While You Work." And though it's considered Jack's most famous album, it's not my personal favorite. "Tough Duff" is my favorite Jack LP.

That's great you asked him about Tina Brooks.... Who knew!

Dude, I think it's Andrew Hill... B-)

Let's not forget some of Gene's 70's sides. I DIIIIGGG his version of Linda Ronstats' "Long Long Time"...not to mention all his other 70's stuff. To me, THAT was some of the most soulful and spiritual Jug of all (although I know many will disagree).

Clarence Wheeler IS a bad cat and that IS a bad album!!!!

O.K the organ lists go on. And here's my top 20 Jazz Organ songs of all time... 1. Groove Holmes "Misty" 2. Charles Earland "More Today Than Yesterday" 3. Jimmy Smith "Back At The Chicken Shack" 4. Leon Spencer Jr. "Someday My Prince Will Come" 5. Larry Young "Talkin' Bout J.C." 6. Trudy Pitts "Take 5" 7. Lou Donaldson w/John Patton "Funky Mama" 8. George Braith w/Billy Gardner "Mary Had A Little Lamb" 9. Jack McDuff "Rock Candy" 10. Freddie Roach "Brown Sugar" 11. Baby Face Willette "Swinging At Sugar Ray's" 12. Don Patterson "S'bout Time" 13. Lou Donaldson w/Lonnie Smith "Alligator Bogaloo" 14. Lonnie Smith "Move Your Hand" 15. Johnny Hammond Smith "I Remember Clifford" 16. Grant Green w/Jack McDuff "Grantstand" 17. Jimmy McGriff "The Worm" 18. John Patton "The Yodel" 19. Grant Green w/Baby Face Willette "Miss Ann's Tempo" 20. Jimmy McGriff "All About My Girl"

BFrank, you can't go wrong with either of those McDuff's. Both are some of his best. And Kinuta...since "Face To Face" is so tough to find, "Stop And Listen" is surely no slacker in the second place catagory. The trio of Face, Grant Green and Ben Dixon is simply unbeatable. Just a sidebar (which I might have told before)... I once asked Big John Patton if he had ever met Baby Face Willette before. He told me only once, when Patton was touring with Lou Donaldson in the early 60's in Chicago. Said Baby Face took him back to his apartment which he shared with his parents and several siblings. Always wish I could have been a fly on the wall and seen BFW and BJP hang out together!

Thanks Jim, it's good to be back around a little bit more lately. As far as Leon goes...man, he's about as bad as they ever got imho. If we had a top 20 organ records, the stuff he does on The Scorpion w/Lou Donaldson is right in that league. Not to mention...if you did a top 10 organ SONGS...well, "Someday My Prince Will Come" by Leon HAS to be in the top ten..no doubt about it. He brought a whole new vibe to the organ...loose as a goose...with that rotating bassline! Wow. Damn, Leon rules!!!!

Hmmm. Maybe so. She might have dug it. I actually DO dig alot of those albums with bassists...I mean, could "Hustlin'" have been any cooler?~!!! But I just wonder if the producers felt she wasn't cuttin' it on the bass end. And if that might have been a "girl" thing. Just a theory. But since she's the only major organist who played with bassists almost all the time on record, but not live....well it seems odd.

Local legend who played w/all the greats and was on Harold Land's "Take Aim"...trumpeter Martin Banks.