Soul Stream

****THE REASON COLTRANE AND MOBLEY DRIFTED DOWN SEPARATE PATHS C. 1959 IS ONLY BEACUSE COLTRANE IS THE ONE WHO GOT MINDFUCKED BY SUN RA, AND MOBLEY DIDNT. THATS WHY COLTRANE STARTED ALL HIS CRAZY COLTRANE SHIT, AND THE MOBE KEPT IT REAL**** Against my will I have to say..."Hell Yeah!"

The one thing I don't/didn't dig about the Water reissues is that they left out alternative/extra takes. Blue Note issued an alternate take of "Brother Soul" from Say It Loud on a Rare Grooves Comp. that Water didn't include. A pretty glaring omission since said track was badass and perhaps superior in some ways to the og version.

Yeah...to say those first Blue Note Mobley's aren't the stuff of legends is just kooksville. And if, like Jim suggests, the guy hadn't heard the albums...then why bash 'em? Sounds like bad journalism in that case.

Thanks a lot Jim. Great story that filled in a lot of gaps for me about Mobley the man. Interesting to hear he had no family and never married or had children...that in itself is an invitation to addiction and self-absorption. All that said, Hank is still my favorite tenor of all time. I've tried on Trane and Rollins and all the others I'm "supposed" to like more...but I always come back to Hank as the one I listened to and enjoyed more than the others.

I'm not sure if i agree. Lou was never a "concert" musician in the way Mingus or Ornette, Monk were. He was a working jazz musician playing ghetto clubs (his own description). As we all know, magazines like "Downbeat" look down their nose typically at what's going on at "street level." I think Lou and his band were just vocalizing a reality.

I've found a lot of really original players don't really do well in these situations simply because they don't listen to records the way "we" do. They're too busy playing their own music than listening to what others are up to. So I'm not really surprised. Thanks Jim!!!

I find it interesting in the sense that this was really the absolute end of an era for organ groups. After this it was electric piano and then death by DX7...by then Lou had gone straight ahead again and was using Herman Foster again on traditional piano. So this group was Lou's last working organ group.

Funny Jim...I actually have this issue and pulled it out the other day just to read it again. What a great interview...wish it were longer and a little more about the music and the scene and less about not getting coverage.

In these discographies would it show if there were other unissued completed takes? Looks like the track Alligator Boogaloo was a second attempt. Wonder if the first take was a complete take?

Lou Donaldson "Midnight Creeper"

Landmark album recorded 40 years ago today. Sounds just as fresh today as it did then.... Unbelievable LP.

Interesting to note. Lou always says in his show that the origin of Alligator Boogaloo was that is was something thrown in at the end of the session after they got done with what they really came to record...a throwaway in effect. However...note what take Alligator Boogaloo is.... Guess it's a better story that way. 1. 1867 tk.4 One Cylinder Blue Note BLP 4263 2. 1868 tk.6 Aw Shucks! - 3. 1869 tk.8 Alligator Bogaloo Blue Note 45-1934, BLP 4263 4. 1870 tk.15 Rev. Moses - 5. 1871 tk.17 I Want A Little Girl Blue Note BLP 4263 6. 1872 tk.18 The Thang -

...how did this thread turn into an "Allen Lowe" thread? No disrespect, but you've turned a discussion about Lou Donaldson's Hot Dog, an album and artist you don't dig,... into an ongoing conversation with yourself about yourself. Can we get back to Hot Dog yet?!

Hey Dan...have you ever heard the Greezie 45 of Charlie Earland ...Hold On I'm Coming/Rescue Me....seems like I SWORE I heard that somewhere..?

Wow, great thread.... Forgot about this one. Dan really is the man on this stuff. He hipped me to all of this at the time.... Still lots of mystery left it seems.

Damn...thanks ya'll. Does anybody have the 45 on Greezie Records(?) of Charlie Earland Midnight Hour backed with Rescue Me?

Here's a link to an Ebay mint (163 bucks)....does anybody have this album or know anything about it? I'd love to hear it. Does anybody have a song list from the LP??? Sounds like it might be a KILLER record. http://cgi.ebay.com/CHARLIE-EARLAND-TRIO-S...7QQcmdZViewItem

I'd say Melvin's is the "weakest" solo of the bunch. Sorry to disagree, still dig his solo a LOT. But between Lou, Blue and Charlie...yeah Melvin sounded maybe the least interesting to me. That said, it's not a contest....still think Lou and Charlie make the biggest impact and either extreme of the spectrum...from guts to glory.

groove holmes-onsaya joy I was always curious about this record...nice to see it come up on some top 20 lists. I've never heard it, but would like to...vinyl has been pretty pricey on ebay.

I know my reply sounded like I didn't get your post...sorry. I understood that you thought this was old men aging badly, ect....like Stitt and Donaldson. That said, my point is that I think this is why this music worked so well. Lou brought a maturity and musicality to the groove that would have been lost had it been up to the kids by themselves. Charles Earland's solo on Hot Dog would sound trite had it not been for the complexity of Lou's approach that made a nice contrast. Ying and Yang.ect... Sonny Stitt and Melvin Sparks on "Miss Riverside" Rusty Bryant and Bill Mason on "FireEater" Johnny "Hammond Smith" and Wally Richardson on "Dirty Apple" and so on and so on...

And I feel that this era in soul jazz '67-72, while groovingly functional, suffers from the absurdity of aging artists who were already v. funky in their own ways trying a little too hard to be FUNKY in the then new post-JB sorta way --quote from Danagoodstuff. Man, I really dig this quote! Really right on in a lot of ways. One of the things I find very appealing about this era is you've got some greying cats like Lou, hitting it hard with young guys like Lonnie, Charlie Earland, Leon Morris, ect. Even Reuben Wilson was no spring chicken at the time. But it's that idea of "Yeah, let's get hip to the kids and the new style" that I find attractive for whatever reason. Jimmy Smith in huge collar with his fist raised on the cover of Root Down. Or and middle aged Lou walking with a young sister with huge fro.... Yeah, it's part of the appeal for me, no denying it. Plus the experience those guys bring to the music, busting up against the youngsters...I mean Lou and Leon Spencer Jr...that was on fire.

Allen, I just don't agree that Lou's idea of Soul Jazz is all cliche and false feeling, played by a guy who's just an O.K. bebopper and a bad blues player. I think if that's your feeling about Lou, than we're just too far apart to agree on much of anything here. That said, Soul Jazz (to me at least) is a pretty broad area. There's a pretty big gap between what Reuben Wilson was trying to do on Love Bug, and what John Patton's intentions were on Memphis To New York Spirit. I'm a big fan of both approaches. Maybe I'm a nut, but I get just as much pleasure out of hearing Monk "Live At The It Club" as I do Lonnie Smith "Live At Club Mozambique."

I think any Soul Jazz organ-based recording on Blue Note between those dates are amazing. My favorites change depending on what I'm listening to at the time....right now Reuben Wilson's "A Groovy Situation" and Lou's "Say It Loud" are ones I'm really digging a lot. A few months ago I was on a heavy McGriff's "The Worm" and Lonnie's "Turning Point" kick...

One man's trash is another man's treasure. And to be honest Allen, I think it's a big drag you trashed the thread with the multiple posts in huge type. Hot Dog is not poop, imho. Like Jackie McLean said in the documentary Jackie McLean on Mars..."You think Lou Donaldson WANTS to be playing Hot Dog!!??? He's one of the greatest alto players in the history of the music!" (Or something to that effect.) So, I understand the sentiment. That said, if you consider Soul Jazz an art form (which I do), then Hot Dog is one of the cornerstones of the music. Everything can't be Kind Of Blue (thank goodness), but there are certainly merits Hot Dog and those Lou Donaldson albums mentioned above. By the way, Lou's playing the Village Vanguard tonight...I'm sure he'll play Alligator Boogaloo or Midnight Creeper or Hot Dog since those are all staples of his set. Lou doesn't have to play these anymore for commercial reasons I would imagine. He likes to play Cherokee, sing a slow blues, a ballad and and play Hot Dog... he could do standards all night if he wanted, but he doesn't. So I think even Lou would make the arguement that there are "musical" justifications for this era of his career.