ep1str0phy

Would someone with big ears care to chime in on a suspicion I have regarding the discographical info for an unissued BoB CD? The Jizz Relics blog (jizzrelics.blogspot.com) lists the alto as Ozzie--I'm almost positive it's Dudu. Here's what I posted: Unless someone has clear knowledge that that discographical information is 100% correct, at least some of it is incorrect. My suspicion: the alto player (1st sax solo on track 4, in pretty clear evidence on track 5) is Dudu--not Mike Osborne. My impression here is based solely on the piles and piles of listening I've been doing w/respect to the South African guys; Dudu and Mike were the alto chairs in the Brotherhood, and their styles are fairly dissimilar. Reasons: (1) the harsher tone, frequently lapsing into chording/multiphonics (Ozzie's tone was cleaner, more reedy, and discreetly sharp in an Ornette-ish kind of way); (2) the dashing, jagged register leaps, alternating facilely between low-register multiphonics and the false register (a Dudu trademark; Osborne's tendency was to stick with a mid-register tessitura, although when he did go into overdrive--like on the Colbeck album--he tended to stay there, and with less capriciousness); (3) extensive use of portamento and pitch bending, which was always a Dudu thing (Ozzie's tone/pitch control is far more straightforward than Dudu's); (4) the tendency of phrases to trail off, as well as greater dynamic variation (I've always taken Ozzie as more of a melodic constructionist than Dudu--or at least more direct; Dudu had the early Ornette, getting at "contour" more than "form" thing going on); (5) the appearance of some of Dudu's pet phrases, including quotations from McGregor's "Now" (it goes under other names...) and a three-note motif from "Nobomyu" (from In the Townships; (6) the prominence in the ensembles (Dudu was among the more outspoken ensemble players in the Brotherhood, and his wild interpolations are almost unmistakable). I mean, what else would Dudu be doing at this juncture? He appears with McGregor during sides made during the Blue Note split (Moholo-Moholo and Dyani had gone to South America with Lacy, the others remained in Europe), and I can't recall hearing that he'd be anywhere else where the bulk of the Brotherhood crew was present. Granted, these are on-the-fly impressions, but whoever's playing alto does not sound like Mike and does sound like Dudu. The whole band is on a tear (which makes me regret that only two of the cuts are full band sides), which could explain any excrescent stylistic differences for this date. Still, though--some tough information would have to come out to convince me that the lineup on the front page is right. As for Mbizo--there was an ideological split between the Brotherhood camp and Dyani somewhere along the line.

Good pull. In particular, the Cyrille, Bluiett, and Harris are favorites of mine.

I've been looking forward to this one (weird and atypical as it is)...

Good thing this thread popped up--I just picked up a copy of Graham Collier's Hoarded Dreams (from the early 80's), and Ted is a featured soloist. He'd lost none of his old ebullience and keeps up well in fast company (Kenny Wheeler, Manfred Schoof, Henry Lowther, Tomasz Stanko). My only reservation might be that, fine as the set is--terrific arrangements, compositions--there's scarce little of the full-on trumpet line improvising together (and when it occurs, it's a BOOM-fest, versus the quieter, more detailed ensemble work that I know all of these men can provide). The whole line-up is killer, and it's in some ways enough to hear cats like Curson working in such unusual, momentous environs.

I'm right with you on Crystal Fire, .:., although I thought of a four-square Andrew Hill before I did Dollar Brand. Maybe, like Holland, Berger has had a more comfortable time at the more "inside" part of the inside/outside space--which doesn't say that he's abandoned his more esoteric elements, only that that's not what it's really about (if it's ever been about that, anyway). Walt Dickerson is definitely my "avant" vibe man, but I can appreciate where Karl's at now.

Naw, he doesn't play with the strings on that one. That does remind me of Forms & Sounds though--Ornette on trumpet + strings, although he doesn't really play with the strings (more like in-between).

His work with the BAG guys is baaaaad. Wadud is not just funk--he's menace... As noted above, his work with Julius Hemphill is tremendous. They brought out the best, most aggressive playing in one another.

...Chappaqua Suite is kind of Ornette with strings, but that's the trio's gig all the way through. Denardo and Barre Phillips kick ass on this. Too bad that trio didn't go on to do other things.

Honestly, it's just his piano playing that runs hot and cold with me. I'd take Karl Berger now over Hutch now any day of the week, if only because I don't get the feeling that Karl gave up on trying "new" things (if not the new thing) somewhere down the line. Re: multiple Dons--the top hits on many-a-famous search engine are not the Don we know and love, but rather Don's Clem. Almost as bad as that "Leroy Jenkins" debacle that clogged up youtube a while back.

Romano sounds right for the vintage, but without a link on espdisk.com (just a little teaser), there's no way of knowing for sure. Pharoah was with Don around '67, although those were stateside gigs/sessions, IIRC. In other words, there's a lot floating around which should tell us what this band probably is (and certainly what it probably sounds like), but with so little of Don's late-60's European output readily available, this could be something to watch. On a whole other note, I like Karl Berger--there's a cuspate quality to his sound that I quite enjoy. It's certainly a lot "smaller" than the Hutcherson approach, and perhaps less weirdly idiosyncratic than what many other forefathers of "avant" vibes (e.g., Walt Dickerson) achieved, but it's got its own virtues. Berger has a sort of melodic directness that I really, really admire (I reviewed a recent duet album with John Lindberg recently--it just shines when Berger is doing what he does best...).

The sidebar on the esp-disk website lists Don Cherry, Live at Montmartre 1967 as "coming soon". Has anyone heard this? I'm assuming that these aren't the '66 recordings (w/Karl Berger, Barbieri, et al.), granted the '67 tag.

Wow, that "seller has an illness" thing is the bullshit of bullshits. That's bush league bullshit. So, so sad. Some of these after market antics make me really, really sick.

Yeah, he's definitely got a bit of that old R&B honk in there--but made wacky by harmolodics/Ornetticisms. I love it. Granted that the whole Rhino thing has been reissuing Ornette's later Atlantics, it's probably a matter of time before we get the early catalogue remastered. Whatever the case, just a year or so ago, I still remember Ornette On Tenor being the one that always clogged up the used shelves--I don't know why, it just was.

To my mind, with Ornette the unlicensed recordings are a big part of the story (as with many major jazz artists). If I were you, I certainly wouldn't miss this. In fact, even though I have the vinyls I'll probably pick one up myself when it appears. BTW, with reference to the original discussion, Get Back is Italian, not Spanish. Yes, I won't miss it. There's mention of the Get Back label on this thread? It's Gambit that's releasing the Hillcrest recordings. Of course, if the Siberia label Jhunip released the recordings, I'd buy it from them. I've resisted purchasing the slew of Ornette bootlegs that have recently been dumped onto the market, although a fought a pretty hard battle for a CD copy of The Fabulous Paul Bley Quintet on ebay a while back (not that expensive in the end). As much as I want to hear the rest of the sessions, if it's on one of the "sordid" labels, I don't think I'm going to be picking it up (as if there weren't enough to listen to as it is). Come to think of it, I don't know of any CD releases of the rest of the Hillcrest material (that is, outside of the stuff on Fabulous)...

It was the first Charles Tyler ESP, IIRC. He also seems to play xylophone on the Golden Circle sides ("Morning Song")... though that could just be tinny vibes (haven't heard the sides in a while).

I remember bringing some stuff up to the counter at Amoeba, and the cashier asked, "how can you afford all this?" (I had been coming in three or so times a week) My reply: "I'm a student. I don't eat." It was true--I've since improved...

I couldn't really get into this one at first--probably because it isn't as aggressive as Tyler's first ESP--but I think some of its nuances have started to emerge to me. The strings/sax mix works really well, and Baker is a large part of that.

Redman on tenor has a big, rounded tone, a sort of timbral fluidity, that approaches Ornette's facility on alto--it's a total contrast to the way Ornette plays on that last Atlantic side, which, virtuosic as it is, can probably "best" be described as rough or grainy--a rolling/tumbling sort of thing. Also, although Redman's phrasing has more of a modal/scalular character a lot of the time, he sometimes pushes into Ornette's squarer, diatonic territory (although sometimes I hear this as Dewey doing an Ornette thing, versus Dewey doing a Dewey thing). Rhythmically, though, and in the way of phrase "shapes", Redman and Ornette are in completely different departments. Ornette has a way of getting into the rhythm of whatever is going on around him--even in rubato time--whereas Dewey has a tendency to wash over the rhythm. I guess Mingus's equating Ornette with a whole lot of bongos has some truth to it; Ornette strings his phrases together with a very clear rhythmic momentum--heavily accented--and Dewey just tends to hit the highs and lows (that "careening" sound). Inspired by the Chappaqua talk, I'm listening to the second disc right now--and Pharoah (for what little time he pops up) has sort of a Dewey Thing going on--just swaying over the rhythm. Ornette's ability to dig into wacky syncopation (something that Pharoah doesn't really do, and that Dewey seldom got into) was part of what made the 60's trio so good--Moffett is really an adventurous bebop drummer, pulling some Klook stuff, and he knows how to push his hits like few other "free" guys.

Well, they're not working for Ornette--so it's a valid question.

Bey has performed well in some more advanced contexts. His appearance on Members Don't Get Weary comes to mind.

Oh, and Late--all of that album is just really deep to me (I did this as an AOTW?). It's a shame that Ornette's most regular years on the trumpet and violin were the formative ones--he really developed, especially on the former horn, after the 60's. "Some Day" is gorgeous.

Gonna have to disagree with you a bit, chewy. Ornette has recalled his alto sound on some of his later tenor outings (like the thing Late and I have been discussing), but there's something about his articulation on Ornette On Tenor which is really specific to that instrument. His tone on the bigger horn feels a lot darker, sorta husky where Ornette's alto is nasal--at times, it reaches a sort of Rollins/Ayler-esque rasp, and if Ornette was never really intent on "smoothing out" his multiphonics it's really evident here. There's surely something about the "honk" of the tenor that just roughens out the edges of Ornette's phrasing, magnifying the angularity of his lines. Also, maybe it's just because the album was recorded earlier in Ornette's development, but the transposition to the bigger instrument cuts up Ornette's "pet" motifs in a really interesting way. That this isn't evident on Soapsuds, Soapsuds makes me believe that a lot of the sound on the earlier albums has to do with a self-conscious decision to play out of the alto's "idiom" (and into the tenor, as per Ornette's liner notes on the original Atlantic release). In some ways, I think Dewey Redman feels like a more direct translation of Ornette's alto to tenor than the playing on Ornette On Tenor.

I agree, too, but at this point I'll take anything, and novelty is a part of that. I think the recent "Ornette explosion" has spurred a mad-dash to documentation, but things feel a little uneven when a few great bands have just disappeared from below. Did you happen to catch the Ornette/Charnett/Denardo trio? I mean, I love Geri Allen, but that trio was hard--in its own way, a challenge to the (dare I say it) 60's trio.

Derek Bailey: Aida Bill Dixon: November 1981 Both really, really, really good. I haven't really "absorbed" the Dixon side yet, but the Bailey is clearly one of the most direct, focused solo albums he ever assembled.

DAAAAAAAMN! Thank God, Thank God we live in the reissue/digital era. 'Cause I would never have gotten to hear that one...