king ubu

Hey, you omitted "All of the above"... I didn't do it, for sure B) ubu

Baron's notion was that, under the influence of the threat consisting of the Tyranny of Milan, in Florence, there arised a new form of humanism. He called this "civic humanism". Leonardo Bruni (from Arezzo, thus at that time called "Aretino") was the crucial person in Baron's scheme, 1402 the crucial year - the year when the threat was getting immense. I cannot right now explain what exactly "civic" meant, but it has to do with the idea that the new humanists, opposing mainly to Petrarca (and Bocaccio, who was a student or scholar or whatever of Petrarca) and his ideals of the "vita contemplativa", stressed the "vita activa" (of civic, hence the word, life). In addition, a new study (after discovery of new handwritings, I think, but am not sure) of Aristotle and mainly Cicero took part. Bruni, in his "Laudatio Florentinae urbis" (which I write my paper about, and which, together with his "Dialogues" represent the mainstay of Baron's argumentation in "Crisis") developped a "double-thesis", maintaining (as Salutati before him had found already) Florence's foundation not under Caesar (the hero of Petrarch) but under the Roman repbulic (Sulla, I think), and therefore having to bear the yoke of the task of defending Roman/republican/Etrurian civic liberty in opposition to the threat of tyrants all over Italy. Baron maintained Burckhardt's view of the Renaissance bearing the seed of modernity, bringing middle ages to an end. Yet somehow he also maintained sort of a continuity - actually "civic humanism" came into being through a melting together of the vernacular, medieval, civic tradition of the communes, and the learnde humanist approaches of the line of Petrarch (and the Scholastics). Bruni was the most important figure in this scheme, presenting us (in the "Laudatio") a first republican manifesto (as Baron believed) (and this is exactly the part of the "Laudatio" in focus of my paper). (You can download a partial version in english as pdf here: www.york.ac.uk/teaching/history/pjpg/bruni.pdf Baron's reading has been more and more critized. Beginning with attacks by Jerrold E. Seigel (somewhen in the sixites), and, as you mentioned disagreements with (but no open critique from) Kristeller. While it seems that at least concerning the "Laudatio" the huge work Baron did to re-date the text (1403/04 instead of 1400/01) seems to be regarded as valid still today, in the case of the "Dialogues", Baron's opinion is not generally accepted anymore. The chronology (the establishment of a new chronology proposed and put up by Baron) was the foundation for his thesis. Yet today, there are historians who consider that even with certain chronological aspects as established by Baron being false, his general proposal (the "civic humanism") is still valid. The main point put up against the "Baron-thesis" (besides the general difference in regard to what (renaissance or generally) history should deal with - the differences between Baron and Kristeller) was that his view was much derived from his own "preferences" - his adhereance to german 19c "Bildung", "Bildungsbürgertum", "Bildungsideal" (in reference to Humboldt's "second humanism" etc - Kay Schiller wrote an article and a book about that issue). So Baron generally identified himself with Leonardo Bruni, his great champion, and thus created problems that maybe would not have been without him. He stressed that Bruni was a republican ideologue (the first actually to leave us an outspoken republican tract, the "Laudatio" (as I said before, ahem...), and seemingly disregarded the possibility of Bruni being a professional "rhetorician" (Seigel's attack was titled: "Civic humanism or professional rhetoricism" or something similar, Baron's reply "L. Bruni: 'civic humanist' or 'professional rhetorician' "). My opinion on this whole thing (not quite fully formed yet, however), is along the lines of James Hankins (who wrote an interesting article for a book ("Renaissance Civic Humanism") he edited). The Baron-thesis is still interesting, some (important, not to say general) points are still valid (the new - whether to dub it "civic" would have to be discussed, actually, the original term was "Bügerhumanismus", and maybe less debatable than its english counterpart - humanism is a "fact" which can be stressed with help of sources), yet regarding Bruni (not to speak of Baron's Machiavelli), Baron seemed to miss some points. I don't believe Bruni was an ideologue of any kind. Rather he was a politically involved rhetorician, man of letters (and bestseller author of his time, too, by the way), wo adapted with ease to different political systems - he had no problem with the rise of the Medici, for instance (Baron works quite hard to try and convince us why the republican ideologue should work under a regime viewed today as not much different than the tyrannies in other italian city-states of that era). Hope this makes *some* sense, ubu

"Brilliant Corners" was a Riverside date! A Prestige date that might fit what you mean: Sonny Rollins' "Saxophone Colossus". Or the Rollins-led date of the Roach/Brown quintet. And of course the two Miles quintet "marathon" sessions! The Trane dates, yes! I love all of them! You could ask as what he regarded them at the time (1957, "Traneing In", "Settin' the Pace", "Soultrane", "Lush Life" etc.) - as great records by an emerging star, or rather just another one for a musician in need of money (was this before of after Trane kicked his habit? I've got no possibility to look this up being at work), or just another jam session using some "regular staff musicians". Maybe talk about the Booker Ervin albums? Had he left Prestige then? They were all produced by Don Schlitten. Did Weinstock leave? Sell? (I don't know the history of Prestige at all, forgive me!) You could ask him about Bob Parent (and later Esmond Edwards and Don Schlitten) doing those marvellous cover photographs (and session photographs - look at the booklet of the Eric Dophy Prestige box, for instance). ubu

This looks interesting, Mike! Thanks for the ubu

I'll have to check if that 2LP set is still around in the shop where I saw it. I think it had some sort of "complete" tag to the title, but I'm not sure. thanks! ubu

Works fine for me, too! ubu

Not as far as we know! Hell, they sure should! And then, they should go on bringing us the complete sessions from all those live double albums from the 1970-74 period, too, as they will with the Live-Evil tapes. At least one of the Fillmore albums was cut toghether from several nigths/sets. And then they should start releasing legal reissues of many bootlegs... I never heard a note of live second quintet besides the Plugged Nickel and the Berlin stuff... ubu

Please do, but no hurry at all! I did not know about the Mosaic and the Clef dates! Write them an email about them presenting them on a select! Sure worth a shot! ubu

I guess they would not care if we did all the work, the main problem is - if we were producing all these discs of italian, french, german, austrian, swiss, polish, czechoslovak, finnish, danish or whatever jazz, they would never identify a single tune... ubu

Mike, those two other sessions ("Mood") - were they on the Vice Prez 2LP set? And the CD, the spanish one, is that complete in any way? Or is it some compilation? ubu

Also a nice addition to the Jacquet Mosaic! ubu

Even cooler if included in that 20% is the part that did Nicole Kidman... Thanks a lot for your concern about poor king ubu... It's nice to be part of the family... So how's about 1. Convinced Organissimo Addict (100%) ubu By the way, I forgot to mention it's exactly those 20% I do, well... ubu

Even cooler if included in that 20% is the part that did Nicole Kidman... Thanks a lot for your concern about poor king ubu... It's nice to be part of the family... So how's about 1. Convinced Organissimo Addict (100%) ubu

Dizzy Gillespie was a Bahá'í, for however much that is worth. Jim, you know about a theologist article about Dizzy Gillespie and his religious beliefs you could recommend? ubu

In this case, you gotta hear the "Kid From Denver" disc! Perfectly fits the Basie bill! Nat Pierce does the Count, Joe Newman, Thad & Renauld (sp?) Jones, Henry Coker, Gene Roland John Carisi are among the other horns, Freddie Green, Eddie Jones, Sonny Payne, Wendell Marshall, Oscar Pettiford and Osie Johnson among the rhythm players. four dates in all, recorded 1956/57. Some tracks feature Sylvia Pierce (yes, they were married - quoting the liner notes, originally on "New Voices", Dawn DLP-1125, "She first met Nat Pierce, her husband-to-be, when she was fourteen. (. . .) when Sylvia was seventeen they started going together. In 1953 they were married.") I like her alright. Never heard anything else of her. ubu

I may have to disagree with you, my friend. Have you heard this material? It's some amazing stuff- I think a lot of the the pre-Wayne Miles recordings get overlooked and underrated. I personally am a fan of George Coleman, plus you've got some very interesting Sam Rivers here, too. I do think the quintet really came into its own w/Wayne, but don't sell this one short. Some of the most amazing rhythm section work you'll EVER hear. Maybe not the most radical or innovative period, but one worth checking out without a doubt. Tony is amazing. Herbie is amazing. Ron Carter is a rock. Excellent music. Absolutely agree! Love the My Funny Valentine/Four & More concert and the Antibes set! Will Miles in Berlin be included in that box, too? Should be, no? That's a beautiful SOUNDING album! You get the idea you could hear a feather falling to the floor on that one! (I've got it on a japanese Sony or CBS or whatever CD, sounds marvellous). And I never ever heard the Rivers album (and as I might not be the only one who needs this *problem* fixed, the set might hold at least one surprise...) ubu

Word of advice: I've tried these. They suck. Send me a pair of these, too No need to feel sorry, anyone. Larry, I'll have to give the disc another listen, but won't be able to do so right ahead. (Working on an exercise for university - see my Hans Baron thread...) I guess I loved the horns that much, that I have not yet REALLY listened to the rhythm section on that one - which would also indicate that I did not take note of their marring the whole date... But it's been quite some time since I last heard it, anyway. Another favorite: PAUL QUINICHETTE! I LOVE his record with Coltrane (though that's not one for this thread), and his Complete Dawn sessions (available from Freshsound/Blue Moon, see link posted above by PDEE), as well as his "Vice Pres" album. I have the later one in its VEE incarnation. Did the double LP include any tunes not on the VEE? I recently saw it in a store, here, but had no possibility to compare it with the VEE. Here come the covers: How are these two? (LOVE that cover!) ubu

I guess most of his work will go into creating an animated CD-case... cool, John! Hope for some unusal, to say the least, choices! (Will it be one, two or three discs? ) ubu

Err, well, I have to protest! I hope you noted the difference in number one of my list! humbly yours, ubu

1. Nontheist (100%) 2. Secular Humanism (93%) 3. Unitarian Universalism (88%) 4. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (80%) 5. Bahá'í Faith (78%) 6. Theravada Buddhism (78%) 7. Liberal Quakers (75%) 8. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (65%) 9. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (63%) 10. Neo-Pagan (63%) 11. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (45%) 12. New Age (43%) 13. Taoism (43%) 14. Orthodox Quaker (42%) 15. Eastern Orthodox (40%) 16. Islam (40%) 17. Jainism (40%) 18. Orthodox Judaism (40%) 19. Reform Judaism (40%) 20. Roman Catholic (40%) 21. Sikhism (40%) 22. Jehovah's Witness (38%) 23. Mahayana Buddhism (38%) 24. Seventh Day Adventist (33%) 25. New Thought (28%) 26. Hinduism (26%) 27. Scientology (20%) Now that's a funny list! I share 20% of my thinking with Tom Cruise? Cool! Jehova's witnesses have given up ringing our bell, and yet I share 38% of their ideas?! And could someone please explain what no. 5 "Bahá'í Faith (78%)" means? Maybe this is an option? Hell, I guess NOT! Help! What would *I* need salvation for? Uh, oh! I guess I am a hopeless case, ubu

That's an interesting question, and one I did wonder about many times, too! Another thing might be the jam sessions. How did they come to happen? All organized ahead? Or just some cats hanging around in the studio? Maybe ask him about the late Mal Waldron, who seemed to play a quite important role in many of these jam session albums. Ask him about his "house" musicians, such as Waldron, Art Taylor, P.C. etc (well, I know they recorded for what label they could, but there were some appearing more often on Prestige, some more often on Blue Note etc. Sonny Clark, for instance, never made a date for one of the nowadays Fantasy-owned labels, except for that Sonny Rollins one, did he? How came?) And of course, Dan, let me express my heartily congratulations! (Can you tell us already where this interview will be printed? Any chance to read it here in Europe, too?) ubu

Not a problem, brownie! I was just getting confused, because I never saw Sonic Boom here, yet! ubu

ubu

As I get it, there are several historians among us. Anyone has opinions to share on Hans Baron's concept of "civic humanism"? Anyone read his "Crisis"? I'm currently working on a little exercise on Leonardo Bruni and in connection with that read Baron's "Crisis" among other things. ubu