Milestones

To digress a bit, we appear to have two upcoming jazz biopics--one on Miles (Don Cheadle), the other on Chet Baker (Ethan Hawke). Who else would be a good subject for a jazz biopic? This could include Bill Evans (or not). I would like to see Charles Mingus and Art Pepper

Bill didn't look all that dorky in his later years. Maybe Matt Damon as BE...adopt a look something like that in The Talented Mr. Ripley.

I don't think I knew just how messed-up Bill Evans was. He would make a good subject for a film biopic--drugs, racial issues, suicide, early death, connection to greats like Miles Davis. I keep hearing there is supposed to be a film in the works on Chet Baker. But why not Bill Evans? I give the man credit for not having extended time off the scene (like Art Pepper, Chet Baker, Joe Pass, Frank Morgan, and several others) and that the quality of his work rarely suffered.

Is Thad the soloist on the first version of "A Child is Born"?

Of recent losses, I have been most saddened by Jim Hall, Charlie Haden, Horace Silver, and Dave Brubeck. On the plus side, I'm still getting to see people like Randy Weston and Roy Haynes.

A little surprised to see quite a bit of negativity toward Bill Evans. In contrast, there was a thread here (or maybe it was elsewhere) which offered virtually nothing but glowing comments. I would say Sunday at the Village Vanguard is an excellent record, though probably not a desert island pick. For this trio, I think my first choice is Portrait in Jazz.

Cool stuff. I'd venture to say that Out to Lunch, Smokestack, Harold in the Land of Jazz, and Lenox Avenue Breakdown are among the greatest jazz LP covers ever.

Bear in mind I don't really know the work of the Jones/Lewis orchestra at all.

One wonders if it was in the nature of the Jones brothers to be sideman. Very talented one and all, but Thad worked a lot in the bands of others and seemed to enjoy composing and arranging at least as much as playing; Hank didn't get a serious solo career going until late in life; and one wonders if Elvin would have been Elvin (a legend) had he not been Coltrane's drummer.

I would like some suggestions on Thad Jones. As I noted in the thread on Monk's big band record, Thad is under-represented in my collection. I do enjoy 5 by Monk by 5, and it's a shame Monk didn't stick with this particular quintet a bit longer. After Hours is nice jam session with Wess, Burell, and Waldron. I don't really have anything by the Jones/Lewis Orchestra, but I imagine he's often lost in this big ensemble. In fact, Thad Jones seemed to show a major affinity to playing in medium and large ensemble--such as the long stint in the Basie band. I even find he's lost on the relatively small ensemble on Hancock's Speak Like a Child. I would appreciate recommendations of both albums and particular pieces.

Yes, I have 5 by Monk by 5, which has the greatest ever version of "Ask Me Now."

I'd like to check out more Thad Jones in general. He is very under-represented in my collection.

I'm just trying to digest this music myself, which I heard for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. I've long owned the first big band set, which I find to be the superior one. On the Columbia album the tracks tend to run long, and the big band itself seems under-used and (as Allen Lowe put it) fairly conventional. As with most of Monk's live records from this period that I've heard, the tempos all seem to be about the same. But I need to keep listening.

I've been a big Kenny Burrell fan for ages, and these recordings for a long time only rumors to me. I couldn't find them anywhere. Then I did track them down...this was more than 15 years ago. Loved the records, and still love them. I slightly prefer Vol. 2, in part because Burrell himself is more prominent. Great jam with Jimmy Smith on "Just Squeeze Me."

"I bet you there is an ISIS member somewhere in the world today wearing a Mickey Mouse watch." Point well taken. I think I would want Jimmy Stewart on my list too.

FILM: Charlie Chaplin Fred Astaire Humphrey Bogart Elizabeth Taylor Marilyn Monroe Cary Grant Gary Cooper Audrey Hepburn John Wayne Alfred Hitchcock

With all due respect to those speaking in terms of a decade or less, no, that is not the case. A "sensation" can have enormous fame for just a few years. By my definition, an "icon" will continue to be highly recognized for 50-100 years. Three years? Take Sinatra, who was truly famous for 50 or more years during his lifetime. Fifty years from now he will still be famous. Fame is fleeting, yet we are talking about an entire century. My initial list was incredibly insufficient.

Indeed, there is the issue of being American-centric, and possibly Euro-centric. But in more recent times it is easier to spread fame into almost every part of the word. It is about fame--the image--as well as oftentimes the facts of a tragic or controversial life.

I think Wycliffe Gordon is worth a mention, though he is more known for his trombone work. Isn't Rojas the guy in Dave Douglas's Brass Ecstasy?

Obviously some are thinking in terms of true significance on a deep level, which is entirely another matter. By and large, the people on my list are NOT terribly significant to me. I'm sure one can define the idea of icon any way imagainable, but I am saying "pop"--not "cultural." The fact that I cover only the last half of the century shows that... A) it's a reflection of my experience, having been born in 1960; 2) maybe pop icons don't last much more than 50 years. I admit I should have included a baseball player--and Babe would be the choice. Muhammed Ali is a good choice. Charlie Chaplin is a good choice. All good choices, and if we choose to make the lists more personal--then by all means. . Maybe we should create separate top 10s: music, comedy, film, sports, etc.

Just out of curiosity. By "pop" I do mean popular, and usually entertainers--often singers/musicians. I manage to get one jazz figure in the Top 10. Lists will vary greatly, I'm quite sure. Seeing the differences will be what makes this interesting. My Top 10: 1. Elvis Presley 2. Marilyn Monroe 3. Beatles 4. Michael Jackson 5. Madonna 6. Princess Di 7. John Wayne 8. Elizabeth Taylor 9. Mick Jagger 10. Louis Armstrong

I need to check out European players like Lars G. and Mats G.

Yeah, I'm quite intrigued by Portrait in Seven Shades. I've heard some snippets.

I do have some work by John Surman, as well as some others mentioned. I never heard of Ernie Caceres and some others. I am looking for particular "pieces" on which the baritone shines.

Let's hear it from the fans of baritone. The bari is the most under-used of all the major saxophones. In the early days you had Harry Carney. Then in the post-war period there was the emergence of Gerry Mulligan, Cecil Payne, and Pepper Adams. These are literally the only ones that have anything like a decent representation in my collection. Of course, there are some others--Ronnie Cuber, Hamiet Bluiet. Even in mid-size groups and big bands, the baritone is mainly just part of the ensemble sound. So how about some recommendations, some places to really hear some good bari work.