Christiern

One can never be sure...

J.A.W. has a point when he advocates obeying forum rules, I just think the board in question--which I frequent--is a bit hard-handed at time. Clearly part of the reason is that Steve is out there, making a living in the recording business, so it would behoove him to not offend clients (or potential ones). Understandable as that may be, it still stifles freedom of expression. That said, I hope J.A.W. returns to the Big O soon.

He makes a lot more than his predecessors, who spent years contacting people around the world and meticulously checking for accuracy. Of course, no one expects Lord to start from scratch, but if he cannot contribute anything new to the effort (and he hasn't), he should have left it in the capable hands of more experienced, more dedicated discographers. If, as you suggest, there is no money in it for Lord, and assuming that his interest in discographical work is genuine, he could have offered to help rather than put out of business those who were already supplying that need. Had Lord not moved in, Raben would have continued his excellent series until he reached Z. I don't know much about Bruyninckx other than that he relied heavily on Jepsen's work and seems to have a genuine interest in getting the correct data. Karl Emil Knudsen (Storyville Records) published some excellent jazz books, including the Jepsen and Raben discographies. Unfortunately, he did not have proper distribution in the U.S. (Libraries, for example), so it was relatively easy for Lord to step in. There is a lot of resentment towards Lord for being the spoiler, as it were, and that resentment is compounded by the fact that he is doing such a sloppy job.

Lest jest has put the brakes on this thread, let me bring it back with a hearty recommendation. Allen put a lot of work into this monumental set and any or all volumes will decidedly enrich a collection of American music. This is rich history, authoritatively presented--Allen's notes add much to the music. Don't mean to sound like a paid sponsor, I just happen to like Allen's work and would like to see it get the attention it deserves.

With the widowed daughter-in-law of an African Queen about to deposit 87 million bucks to my account, I should worry about a measly IRS refund? Gimme a break!

To give you an idea of the album's curative properties, two listens to Orquestra Typicas' La Patti Negra (Vol. 1, disc 1, track 14) removed a small bump from my left arm and seriously reduced my dandruff. I should add that Hot Mustard á la Henderson (disc 9, track 19 of the same volume) totally rid me of dandruff and rendered my walking cane useless! In all honesty, however, I have to add that the Volume, as a whole, made listening to Wynton's rusty retro reproductions far more painful than ever. Have you a cure for that, Allen?

The kind who allows greed or lust to triumph over reason and good judgement. I know that dipshit is calling me a moron, but I trust that you are not implying that I allow greed or lust to triumph over reason and good judgment, Chris. No. It never occurred to me that you might actually have responded to that piece of spam--your political persuasion aside , I grant you far more intelligence than that, Dan!

I think I'll write Albee's "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf" and offer him a "deep bow."

The kind who allows greed or lust to triumph over reason and good judgement.

I think your avatar man, Mr. Tim, just realized that he has fallen for a Phish.

I hope you can do better than that.

That occurred to me, too, Lord's failure to contact people who have the knowledge he lacks. Jepsen and Raben both contacted me on various occasions to see if I could fill in missing information or offer a correction. I have never heard from Lord, nor from any of his minions, assuming that there are such creatures. I, too, refuse to pay a penny for his misinformation. He sent me his first CD when I was with Stereo Review--When I saw clear signs of plagiarism, I gave the disc to one of the victims, Karl Knudsen.

Thank you, Larry. But will they believe?

As for how discographers distinguish between jazz and that which isn't, the line can be mighty thin at times, so they generally err on the side of jazz, as it were.

When you can't find this on the internet, you will have the answer to your question: Think of thousands more pages like it. The above is from Vol. 2 of the Rust discography, it covered the 1st 40 years, or so. The best one for post 1942 was Jepsens, which was being updated by Erik Raben when Lord stepped in and literally plagiarized the works of his predecessors. Lord had better distribution and there is barely a market for one such set, so Erik had to stop work when he reached Vol. 8. Unfortunately, Lord is not as meticulous as his predecessors, who were not in it for the money.

Reading and grasping a post before responding to it might also be regarded as a measure of intelligence. I wondered if vol. 8 was as sloppy as the previous volumes have been--that is an observation followed by a question, not a chronic complaint. Man, relax, I didn't even read your post. I was referring to complaints that pop up all over the place regularly. Ja, så må du undskylde!

Reading and grasping a post before responding to it might also be regarded as a measure of intelligence. I wondered if vol. 8 was as sloppy as the previous volumes have been--that is an observation followed by a question, not a chronic complaint.

Thanks for the tune--you guys need more exposure, for sure. HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all--here's a picture I took across the street from me this afternoon. Central Park is dressed beautifully for the holidays!

Is it as sloppily thrown together as his earlier cribs?

The very small labels, while operated by a producer, often had/have an investor who stays/stayed in the background. I don't think Harry Lim, who produced great sessions, put up the money. Bill Grauer did not produce sessions at Riverside, Prestige's Bob Weinstock gave it up fairly early, Atlantic often hired producers, etc. Blue Note was an exception, of course, but I would venture a guess and say that most jazz producers had little or nothing to do with putting up the money for their sessions--and when they did, it hardly was a determining factor in the artistic outcome. Good producers gathered together good artists and gave them artistic freedom. Bad producers were often dictatorial or people--I won't name names--who focused on the bottom line. Some producers had the respect of the artists, others did not--the former usually won out, artistically. And then there were the stopwatch operators. That said, a producer who is spending his own money is often doing so because he loves the music--that is an important factor.

Orchestra wives.

Admirable deduction, John.

That sounds like something that Peter Bocage probably told you. Yes, Bocage was one of my informants--you have a good memory, because I'm sure that was not a guess.

It does eat up space, but I like it a lot.