Larry Kart

As I'm sure I've mentioned before, I once got a near mash-note letter from Herman after I'd praised in a review a veteran singer we both knew, the late and sublime Audrey Morris. BTW, Herman was married to (hope they're still a couple) veteran Chicago drummer Tom Radtke. He's on at least one SU album, doing yeoman work. She was also IIRC the sister of the at one time prominent Chicago banker A. Robert Abboud. Never met Herman though,

Prompted by this thread I went to the shelves and discovered that I have no less than eleven SU LPs, all of them purchased at Half-Price Books for 50 cents each a few years ago. Listening to them last night and this morning, a funny thought occurred to me: Did Morton Feldman know their work? Probably not, but two of Feldman's major latter-day choral works, "Rothko Chapel" and "For Stefan Wolpe" (for chorus and two vibraphones) each about 30 minutes in length, seem to me like they would have benefited immensely from performances by the SU, albeit not by any reworkings by Gene Puerling -- in any case Feldman's conception in these pieces seems to me to not be far removed by Puerling's in his more abstract moments. IMO, the two choral groups that have recorded those magical pieces are not in the same league as the SU, though they didn't have the benefit of SU-style multi-tracking or, now that I think of it, of Bonnie Herman.

Christy was, or became, an alcoholic -- if that's what Art was referring to. Stage fright/anxiety about performing probably played a role there. Bob Cooper did the best he could to take care of her.

I also recall the airless mechanical comping with which OP pretty much destroys an otherwise promising Harry Edison-Ben Webster Clef album from 1957, "Gee Baby Ain't I Good to You" (not to be confused with a later Columbia album of the same title and with the same frontline). I recall this vividly because the Clef "Gee Baby" was preceded by the sublime 1956 Edison-Webster album "Sweets," with a lovely, gliding rhythm section (Jimmy Rowles, Barney Kessel Joe Mondragon, and Alvin Stoller). And while I don't think OP's again rather airless mechanical comping destroys Ben Webster's much vaunted "Soulville," it sure doesn't help much. Can it be a matter of what OP had for breakfast or lunch on a given day?

I wouldn't call it recanting. I'm just sharing my recent experiences with two OP recordings of different vintages -- and sharing my somewhat bemused pleasure when I hear quality, freshness, and vitality from OP, though that pleasure in no way leads me to take back my negative views of other OP performances. Such performances (for example as an accompanist) can even be separated by very short spans of time and with the rest of the members of the ensemble remaining identical -- e.g. his excellent support for J.J. Johnson and Stan Getz on the tracks of recorded in mono at the Shrine Auditorium on 10/7/1957 and his much less effective support of the same soloists, plus Herb, Ellis, Ray Brown and Connie Kay, on the tracks recorded in stereo at the Civic Opera House in Chicago on 9/29/57. The mono tracks were released on LP at the time, the stereo tracks were issued (coupled with some of the mono tracks) on CD only in 1986. I'm assuming here, BTW, that in the notes for the CD issue of "Stan Getz and J.J. Johnson at the Opera House" Phil Schaap has got his facts right about which tracks were recorded at the Civic Opera House and which were recored at the Shrine Auditorium and when. in any case I think its safe to say that the stereo and mono tracks were recorded about a week apart; and I have no doubt about concluding that OP's role as an accompanist on the stereo tracks was notably inferior to his playing on the mono tracks -- this being clearly reflected IMO in the inferior performances of Getz and Johnson on the stereo tracks versus their electrifying work on the mono tracks. I have an idea about why this happened -- the stereo spread on the stereo tracks is quite wide (as in opposite sides of the stage from the horns), to the point where it seems likely that OP and the rest of the rhythm section probably had trouble hearing Getz and J.J. and vice versa; with a resulting lack of musical-emotional connection, while the horns and the rhythm section on the mono tracks sound like they're fairly close together, with a likely resulting benefit in musical-emotional connection. Again, the problem/question for me is why are their such variations in my response to various OP performances. In the case above, I'll bet it was primarily a matter of the sonic environment -- to me that's pretty much a test-tube example.

Charlie Barnet’s “Lonely Street” from 1954. Billy May, Bill Holman, and Andy Gibson arrangements, (good grief!) trumpet section on most tracks is Pete Candoli, Buddy Childers, Conrad Gozzo, Maynard, and Carelton McBeth, trombones are Milt Bernhart, Si Zentner, Tommy Pederson, and Herbie Harper, saxes include Willie Smith and George Auld. Other tracks include a good-sized string section, arrangements by Russell Garcia. Off the top of my head, this is the best big band string section I’ve ever heard — sumptuous, passionate, and precise. Charlie, who probably could afford it, must have hired the New York Philharmonic.

Yes -- we all did.

I was in the studio as "Have No Fear" was recorded. It was like being present at the parting of the Red Sea.

Tim Warfield "Gentle Warrior" (Criss Cross) Lovely slow-motion version of "I've Grown Accustomed To Your Face." with some inventive comping from Cyrus Chestnut

I'll settle for butt-ugly. I certainly didn't say it was relevant to anything other than himself, though some guys who hang around Smalls seem to think it is. I certainly hope it isn't catching.

Harmonic weirdness per se, even some awkwardness in that sphere isn't necessarily a turnoff for me, but Goold just seems to be trying to force square pegs into round holes. A possible point of contrast might be George Garzone, who certainly has his own harmonic system, but IMO it's one that makes very good sense in itself and also in relation to the harmonic thinking of other uniquely adventurous players, e.g. the late Von Freeman. No less troublesome is that Goold's time seems to be all over the place, especially on this track -- not only Goold's in itself but in terms of his lack of coordination with that of the flailing drummer, who I think may be Goold's brother. As for Sacha Perry, if he is the pianist, he sounds like he might be a disciple of Argonne Thornton, though I believe that Perry, if it is he, was one of Barry Harris' students. I say this Goold recording is wretched in large part because it obviously is not the result of sheer incompetence but rather clearly the result of a good deal of thought and willed effort on Goold's part -- and his efforts have been hailed in some quarters as an innovative breakthrough. Yes, his system is innovative in, I would say, a rather screwy way, but maybe that's just me. I've certainly never heard anything quite like it. And again, I'm not automatically put off by outre harmonic thinking. I should add that I've heard less outre work from Goold in the past, though none of it has made much sense to me. But this joy ride through "Guys and Dolls" takes the cake.

Goold comes up with one of the worst CDs I’ve ever heard. Personnel not given, but I assume the pianist is Sacha Perry. https://youtu.be/b27lyBmdEks

Don't care for the trumpeter who's on a few tracks, but Foster and the rhythm section are slamming. Ned Goold delivers one of the worst performances I've ever heard. Personnel is not given, but I assume the pianist is Sacha Perry. I spent good money on this.

Why was it irritating? Tracey's Monkisms? The bass-drum team? Based on limited experience, I thought Themen was a reasonable player.

BTW and FWIW, the motive behind my survey of all the OP albums I have was that in the case of a musician l who obviously is talented but whom I usually don't care for, I sometimes like to see if I can detect significant instances of vitality/quality/you name it and then figure out why performance X comes to life IMO while performances Y and Z do not. It's kind of educational in ways that can apply to all sorts of players and, as happened this time through the OP albums, I can find some nice music that I didn't even know was there.

An odd topic perhaps coming from a longtime less than enthusiastic about OP listener, but cruising through all the OP CDs I've somehow managed to acquire over the years, but leaving aside obvious top drawer OP like the Stratford and the Concertgebouw albums, I found these two to be exceptional: "Tenderly" (Just a Memory) and "Live And At His /Best" (Point). The former is a Vancouver concert recording from August 8, 1958 with Herb Ellis and Ray Brown. At once intense and relaxed, it finds the trio's three-way interplay at a peak. The latter, from a July 29, 1964 concert in Ljubljana, Yugoslavia with Brown and Ed Thigpen is joyfully Tatum-esque, yet that somehow seems to release more individuality on OP's part than one has come to expect.

Hofstader was a smart man, but I think he's pinning too many badges on "intellectualism" here. His book was perhaps too heavily conditioned by its implicit response to Joe McCarthy, which for sure was an anti-intellectual movement par excellence. Also, for sure, anti-intellectualism remains a key strain in the behavior of today's GOP.

Lem Winchester was a cop.

My point again was that if a military vet joins the police force, habits of discipline and training might well be among the "baggage" he bring to the job, rather than a penchant for violence, as some seem to think.

Brad -- I'm not denying what your ex-Marine said. I'm saying that an ex-Marine who then joins the police isn't automatically inclined to dispense of brute force. Rather, given what I said above, iit seems more likely to me that a well-trained military man, upon exiting the military, will retain a good deal of the training and sense of discipline that was part of his military experience and know better than most how to act judiciously under stress,. Your assumption, if that's what you're assuming, that an ex-Marine would be prone to violence if and when he becomes a member of a police force is an insult to the Marines. OTOH, I have a cousin who was a military policeman in the Korean War and who later became a Los Angeles County Deputy Sheriff because, as he told me, he liked to beat up Mexicans. Bit then he was a complete asshole.

Let's not be too facile with the bad-apple cops are often the (or even the inevitable) fruit of military service. My sense is that in the U.S. military, by and large, there is far more and closer supervision by NCOs and officers of the behavior of soldiers and sailors under their command than there is of the typical U.S. police force by its supervisors. Also, military personnel tend to train for and undertake more complex missions than policemen do. Further, when police officers are off duty they go home/into civil society. If you're in the military you're in the military until your term of service ends and you're discharged. You're part of a unit that I would guess is more cohesively so than anything on the typical U.S. police force.

Yes, "there are also bad people in the world who don't wear police uniforms." But what also must be taken into account here is that if they do wear police uniforms, they carry deadly weapons and may, depending on their and only their estimate of the circumstances, have and/or feel they have the right to injure or kill you. Further, they may well feel sure that whatever those circumstances actually were, their account of things will be backed up their colleagues in uniform. That "complicates" the "provide the necessary protection" issue, no? espacially if one falls into a group that the police tend to hassle or worse. I should add that almost the interactions I've had with police in my own suburban community and in the city of Chicago have been pleasant and helpful, often very helpful. Guess, I've been lucky and/or bear the signs of privilege.

I'm going through/sampling all my classical CDs chronologically step by step, beginning with 11th Century figures like Leonin and Perotin. I've passed through Are Subtilor stuff now. Many interesting, even hair-raising at times, twists and turns along the way. Don't think I have many gaps historically, in terms of continuity, allowing for the possibility that there may be some significant missing pieces in terms of what's come down to us. Most surprising figure so far has been Cicconia. The stylistic gap between his relative smoothness and sophistication and in some respects modernity and the flavor and procedures of the immediately preceding music is considerable. Moving on now to not that well-known (at least to me) Renaissance composers of the early to mid-16th Century (e.g. Crecquillon, Phinot, De Monte, Schoendorf, Vaet, et al.) most of whom I only have single CDs of on the Hyperion label, I should say that my generally positive response to their music may be conditioned in good part by the fact that the performers are in every case the superb six-man European vocal ensemble Cinqueconto. Interesting -- and this is only my subjective response -- but I'm finding s distinct dropoff in quality and freshness of inspiration as I move into the 16th Century, i.e. the 1500s. Styistically a good deal seems re-cycled and rather stale. In particular, for one, the often primarily contrapuntal methods of previous eras have now resolved into what might be called contrapuntalism -- a screen of imitative textures that sound like there on automatic pilot. One can almost smell the advent of Montaverdian monody to come. Even in Palestrina's contrapuntal wizardry one can detect a drive toasted plainness and simplicity.

Did Nordine talk to you through a telephone like he did on Word Jazz? No. Frigo was a tasty bass player, but not so visible as a member of Marx's rhythm section as he was a violin soloist. (Wish I could find and quote from that Reich review of Frigo; it was sadistIc and stupid too, by his own standards. That is, Howard tends to be very careful about praising musicians who are well-regarded on the scene, as Frigo certainly was. Why then turn on him like that? He did that at least once before, that I recall, savaging pianist Gene Esposito only, as it happened, a month or so before Gene died. In that case, though, I know what Howard's motive was. He was reviewing a charity concert that Espositio had mounted to pay tribute to Billy Strayhorn, but Neil Tesser was the emcee, and Howard hates Neil and vice versa, so he attacked Gene in order to get at Neil.) The other guys on your list certainly overlapped me chronologically (I got into jazz circa 1955), but either I didn't know of them or, a la Schory, I knew of them but paid little or no attention to them. I was more into Ira Sullivan, Johnny Griffin, Jodie Christian, Wilbur Campbell et al.

Frigo. I liked his violin playing, and one of my gripes against Howard Reich is a vicious idiotic review he wrote of Frigo -- saying that his playing was inept and grossly sentimental. It was neither. Can't imagine what lunatic standard Reich was applying. I did play golf once with Nordine. We just arrived at the local public course at the same time and teed off together. He wasn't very good, nor was I. A nice man. It was startling to hear that distinctive deep voice.