John Tapscott

That is exactly my impression too, I failed to make this point clear enough. The contribution of Nat Pierce's composing and arranging for the band was absolutely crucial, he defined the sound of the Herd. I just thought of something else I read in one of the Herman books. Nat not only did the bulk of composing and arranging for this band; he actually started it. Apparently Woody was in a bit of funk in the early 60's, between bands and not really sure what to do next. So Nat got the core of this band together in Boston, filled it out, provided the charts, and did some rehersals. He knew the band was hot, and figured that once Woody heard it, he would want to step in and lead it. So it happened and Woody got charged up again. Now Woody's leadership was crucial and the band wouldn't have sounded as good without him at the helm, but it was actually Nat's band in the beginning. I think Nat was band manager, as well. Oh yes, that reminds me that Nat "lost" the band's payroll one night at a Vegas gambling house and had to stay on the road a year longer with Woody than he had planned in order to pay it back.

Tommy T. You've nailed it all. Besides your comments about the rhythm section and Jake Hanna one point I would particulary underline is # 2 - the contribution of Nat Pierce as composer/arranger to this band. The original LP's were not always clear about who wrote and arranged the various charts, but the Mosaic set makes clear that in terms of composing and arranging this was Nat's band. What a great writer he was, absolutely perfect for the Herd.

But somebody knows the story and who the mystery pianist is (I'll admit I'm grasping at straws), and they're not saying (unfortunately). Probably if it got out who the mystery pianist is, it would cost Storyville some $$$$.

Having listened to this CD once more this morning (and it is very enjoyable listening) I believe now that it is most likely not Tommy, but another pianist on tracks 12-19 (I hold out for Tommy on track 20). I even have a name to suggest for the mystery pianist, a pianist whose work also appeared on Storyville - Ralph Sutton (there are a few trademark Sutton licks & phrases, though I also have a nagging suspicion that it may not be him, either.)

I think "OBVIOUSLY" is too strong a term. Take track 20 for example, "All the Things You Are". It is very Flanagan-like. (The sequence around 1:30-1:40 is pure Flanagan). So whoever the mystery pianist is, he/she was doing a pretty good imitation of Flanagan, at least on this track. The one track that raises major questions for me is "Rosetta." But it's interesting that with the exception of this track all the other questionable tracks are tunes which appeared (sometimes frequently) in Tommy's live and recorded programs. Here are two other points worth mentioning: Ted O Reilly (whose knowledge I respect a great deal and on whose radio program I cut my "jazz listening teeth") mentions the difference in piano sound between Tommy's tracks and the "questionable" tracks. Actually the sound also varies a bit on the definitely authentic tracks. There is a noticeable sound difference between track 1 "Parisian Thoroughfare" and track 2 "Wail" .The other point we shouldn't overlook the ability of master jazz pianists to sometimes play in style different from their accustomed signature syle. It has been said that when the mood struck him, Bill Evans could play down-home swinging blues in the style of Milt Buckner. I'm not dismissing the "other pianist" theory, but until Storyville tells us who the pianist, is, I am not prepared to use the term "OBVIOUSLY." One thing I will say is that it is an EXCELLENT CD.

Not me. I don't think I've received a "promo" copy of anything in about 7 years, and that was only second hand from a friend in the "biz" who was representing/promoting some jazz labels at the time. But Chuck, if you have any spare Uptown "promos" to give away, well, I think you have my address...

I got it a couple of weeks ago, and have listened to it once. It's a very good one, if you like this group (I do). Keith's obligatory "rant" is edited out, so all you get is music (though he does a fair bit of complaining in the liner notes).

The Herman arrived today!!! Now half-way through disc 2. This is one SMOKIN', ON-FIRE big band!!!! What FFA said about Jake Hanna is right on.

RIP, Pete - who graced many of the fine West Coast big band sessions of the 50's and 60's. He was a mainstay of the 1st Herman Herd (I think he was the guy who wore the Superman uniform) and later, the Shorty Rogers big band. Back in the day, there was a saying on the WC that when the music was really tough, Pete was the first guy you called.

There have ony been two Mosaic sets I've preordered - the Mulligan concert band set and this one. I wasn't disappointed in the Mulligan and I'm sure not going to be disappointed with this one. I love this band and this music!!!! Now checking my mail-box hourly! Mosaic has done a great job with Herman reissues.

Yeah, I think a few of us have it.... ... welcome to the party!

Almost daily, the world P.D. James envisioned in "The Children of Men" gets closer to reality.

As I stated in the RIP thread, I am firmly in the Peterson camp. There are reasons to mourn his passing, but quite frankly, the fact that he can't make any more recoridngs is not one of them. In fact, I'm kind of glad he can't make any more since his playing declined quite noticeably over the past few years. I'm not referring to the time after his stroke in '93, because after coming back from his stroke OP made a couple of fine records for Telarc (one with Clark Terry and Benny Carter, another with Roy Hargrove and Ralph Moore.) His playing had changed, but was still pretty strong and he seemed stimulated by the sidemen, especially drummer Lewis Nash. But over the past 7 or 8 years, OP's playing changed further and lacked the strength and security of even these recordings. The most recent OP recording that I know of is the DVD/CD "A Night in Vienna" from '03 with the Quartet. OP swings hard and struggles gamely through two sets before an adoring crowd in elegant surroundings. But quite frankly, OP's playing is quite sloppy at times and is a bit painful to watch and hear. It was not a great ending to his recorded career, I'm afraid, and probably shouldn't ahve been released

Ordered the Herman - can hardly wait! I suggested this set to Mosaic around '93 or '94. They finally came through!

I was the second person to post the news of Oscar's death (after Robert J). It's interesting that both Robert J and I live quite geographically close to Oscar's home. About 10 minutes from my home in Mississauga, a new public elementary school opened last year bearing Oscar's name. I think Oscar appreciated the honor. Anyway, I posted the news without any comment because I knew just how controversial Oscar is among Board members. I figured some kind of musical row would erupt and I didn't want to be part of that. But I will say that Peter's comments above summarize precisely my thoughts and feelings about Oscar the pianist.

You beat me to it, Robert. Sad, but not totally unexpected after a few years of failing health and cancelled concert appearances. RIP, Oscar. http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2007/12...rson-oscar.html

John Coltrane - Fearless Leader (Prestige) I wish they had put the tracks in "album sequence", and the packaging, as usual with box sets (Mosaic excepted), is a bit of a pain, but nonetheless the music is wonderful!

I too, thought Chaloff was Jewish, so maybe both our memories are playing tricks on us.

I have it and agree with all the above comments. It's nice enough but somewhat one-dimensional. It's quite reflective and low-key, maybe the CD you play late on Christmas Eve. One of the reasons I like the Dave McKenna "Christmas Ivory" CD so much is because it touches all the emotions of the season from joyous to reflective to bluesy.

Dave McKenna - Christmas Ivory (Concord)

Listening through the Complete Capitol and Atlantic Recordings of Jimmy Giuffre

Happy Birthday, Jim!!

The CD I suggest has all those things, IMO.

In light of edc's comments, I relistened to Tommy's live trio CD "Sunset and the Mockingbird - The Birthday Concert" on Blue Note. I invite everyone who has it (or even if you don't) to give that a good listen and then honestly ask yourself if 1) and 2) above are indeed true, namely, that Tommy has limited emotional range, and that he is a "limited" pianist. That CD IMO makes mockery of those assertions. In fact, following up on this discussion, I think someone ought to nominate that CD for an AOTW.

Some favs: Oliver Nelson Mosaic Gary Smulyan - More Treasures ( Reservoir) Maria Schneider - Sky Blue (artistshare) Bud Shank/Bill Mays (Jazzed Media) Stan Kenton Plays the Compostions of Dee Barton (Capitol) Roberta Gambarini - Easy to Love (Groovin' High) Frank Tiberi - 4 Brothers 7 (Jazzed Media)