Nate Dorward

Oh, I goofed. Anyway, Pepper's Winter Moon is worth hearing, though actually I'm not quite as enthusiastic about it as many Pepperphiles. There's a nice account of its making in his book Straight Life.

Actually the albums I gather only share two pieces in common: "Mean What You Say" & "A Child Is Born". I'll have to get ahold of the Flanagan--it's an Enja release, I believe?

I've played piano as long as I can remember, & somehow even though I'm no longer trying to hack it as a serious player somehow it's always the piano CDs that stay in heavy rotation. For this AOW, rather than a classic 1950s/1960s record, I thought I'd pick a contemporary piano trio date which is rarely too far from the CD changer here. * Hank Jones: Upon Reflection: The Music of Thad Jones (Verve/Gitanes, 1993) 1. Thad's Pad 2. Ah, Henry 3. The Summary 4. Little Rascal on a Rock 5. Upon Reflection 6. Lady Luck 7. Mean What You Say 8. Kids Are Pretty People 9. Ray-El 10. A Child Is Born (all compositions by Thad Jones) Hank Jones, piano; George Mraz, bass; Elvin Jones, drums; recorded 25-26 Feb 1993 by Rudy Van Gelder, Englewood Cliffs, NJ. (Good!) liner notes by Kenny Washington. I'll post a more detailed response to this disc on the 21st. A few comments first, though: 1) One reason why I picked this for AOW is because I thought I might myself learn a bit more about Thad Jones' music from other boardmembers. I've heard his work as a sideman with Monk, have heard people speak respectfully for years of the Jones/Lewis big band, yet still haven't got any of his small or large group discs. Mea culpa. 2) These are some great compositions--yet Thad Jones seems rarely to attract the kind of devotion as a composer that contemporaries like (say) Herbie Nichols or Sonny Clark receive. I wonder why. I've seen the odd Jones tune in setlists (e.g. recently received a CDR by Scott Wendholt with "Mean What You Say" on it) but it's still pretty uncommon. There is one other album of Jones tunes I know of (but haven't heard), Tommy Flanagan's Let's. 3) One of the unique things about this disc is that Elvin Jones plays brushes for the whole thing--& sounds absolutely wonderful throughout. The exception is "A Child Is Born", more or less an explicit farewell to Thad, where Elvin takes his solo on mallets: it's very unusual to hear a drummer as the principal soloist on a ballad! & it works beautifully in context.

Nah I really doubt it'd be Dato--the track is spirited, but hardly as over-the-top boisterous as Dato always is. Haven't really decided what I make of Dato really--I do find him a bit wearingly jolly at times.

The recent Konitz/Axis String Quartet disc is pretty nice, where they play versions of Debussy, Ravel, &c. Sooner or later someone always mentions Art Pepper's Winter Moon on a thread like this. I don't think it's been mentioned so far so I'll do it.

I've got Kimus #5: most interesting for the extra stuff from Ran Blake's That Certain Feeling.

I tend to think Lines Burnt on Light probably sounds great if you've never heard Parker's solo stuff before....but actually I found it pretty disappointing, & much prefer any of the earlier solo discs I've heard (e.g. Conic Sections or Monoceros). On the other hand the 50th birthday concert set is an excellent place to start. Anyway I still don't fathom the rationale of this thread--why arbitrarily pick two musicians & denigrate one at the expense of the other?

Yeah I'm not a big Roy Campbell fan, to judge by the what I've heard (with RC as sideman--I haven't sought out his discs as a leader). Competent enough but not much more, to my ear. I once got some nasty letters from a disciple of RC's when I suggested that the guy's praise of Campbell in the liner notes to an album (as the greatest innvator on trumpet of the last 30 years) was absurd. -- Anyway, who knows if I got the i.d. right in the case ofthe BFT track but I think I did.

Hm....this one I find a bit of a curate's egg. I really wanted to like it as I thought Bradfield's Rule of Three was brilliant: it is simply one of the best jazz discs of 2003 (fans of Tony Malaby's Adobe, another tenor/bass/drums date, should check it out--to my ears the Bradfield's got the edge, because Geof's tunes are more interesting & the choice of covers is spot-on--Andrew Hill, Randy Weston, Ellington...). I'm glad someone else has heard it--I'd feared that besides me & Ben Ratliff no-one had noticed it! -- But the Sirota's a mild disappointment to me.... I suppose there's only two tracks I actually dislike on Breeding Resistance, the attempt at reggae & the Fred Hampton tribute. & there's some great stuff--my faith in Bradfield is repaid in his three very nice tunes (the "Elegy" in particular). But, hm.....other things I'm not so keen on. For instance, Jeb Bishop seems very underpowered here--doesn't it strike you that he's playing it very safe on his solo on his own "Knife" (his own tune!)? I suppose I shouldn't expect flash from Bishop, but there's a lot of lines which are the musical equivalent of groundhugging (moving in steps or thirds & constantly circling back to the same register). Compared to other work of his I've heard recently (e.g. his very good work on Kyle Bruckmann's Wrack) Bishop sounds like he's having an off-day. Anyway, the Sirota's worth hearing, but I suspect if I keep listening to it it'll be a burn of the disc minus about 3-4 tracks....like a lot of recent Delmarks this could have used a little shorter running time. Jurek is the boy who cried wolf: eventually he's bound to be right, if you're still paying attention by then..... But I don't think he's right about this disc. Though at least it's a darn sight better than the inept Kalaparush & the Light disc released on Delmark at the same time, also reviewed positively by Jurek at the same time. I do find Sirota's liner-notes well-intentioned but vague, self-contradictory & ridiculously out-of-touch--not too impressed with some young guy idolizing Chairman Mao & the Black Panthers, which looks to me just like it's trying to live in a 1960s/1970s radical-chic time-warp. I'm glad he hates Bush, I do too, but I still find the liner notes dodgy. I'm off to see Joe McPhee Friday night & will be back Saturday or Sunday so excuse me if I take a while to reply to any comments here or elsewhere.

I wasn't confused, just unclear if someone had been chosen for the next week & not wanting the AOW to fall back into silence. I'll PM undergroundagent.

Just edited the original post to include responses to everything. I forgot to add my congrats for the birth of your son, too.

No: I have the Mosaic Larry-Young-on-Blue-Note set & it's not that either.

Disc 1 track 1 is surely this one.

OK here goes: disc 1 1: Nice arrangement of the Dolphy tune. I’m a little less interested once the solos kick in, in part because the strutting accompaniment doesn’t seem all that interesting. It’s Don Byron on the clarinet, Ray Anderson on trombone. 2: Ugh, the rubbery sound on the bass dates this one! I think I recognize the tenor but can’t place it. The Monkish pianist is very familiar-sounding too. The accompaniment on this sounds interestingly offkilter (oddly balanced), though I can’t figure out if that’s maybe in part an artifact of the recording (the drums for instance). I’ll take a completely wild guess & say Andy Sheppard &, hm, Stan Tracey. This one was interesting, even if a little too hopped-up for my taste. 3: The opening notes sound to me unmistakably like Larry Young, indeed extremely close to a piece like “Zoltan” or “Beyond All Limits” from Unity. But surely this can’t be, I thought I had all of Young’s work in this vein in the 1960s? Unless it’s one of those dates with Woody Shaw? A really weird tenor solo, on the edge of coherency. The trumpet solo sounds to me much more modern & self-possessed, suggesting this is some retro date on the Criss Cross label or the like. Hm, the organist has a few licks in there which don’t sound like Larry’s bag, but the sound is SO close to Larry Young....! I don’t quite like the drumming, somehow (& there’s a few untogether bits under the tenor solo). Anyway, I’m pretty sure this isn’t Young so it’s probably a facsimile by an epigone. If so it’s a darn good--unnerving, really--facsimile, even if it doesn’t quite gel for me. 4: I don’t think this is Return to Forever, so (not being a fusion fans) I have no idea at all who this is! Some interesting textures, but once the vocalist was introduced it didn’t go anywhere special, just kind of petered out. 5: Nice opening. Once the tune starts there’s some European folksong vibe to the tune (the ornamentation & tonality). I’ve no idea who any of the players are. The question is going to be whether this is an American band influenced by European/klezmer musics, or a European band (e.g. someone like Carlo Actis Dato). The hints of Masada in this make me think this is probably an American band though. 6: Very poorly balanced recording, obviously live. Incredibly tricky head! Soprano solo’s OK, not great. Piano solo is impressively in command, seems to get cut off a little early. Trumpet solo interests me more, & hm, this is the first player here I get the feeling I should recognize. Anyway, a good track of its kind, not quite my thing but I appreciate it. 7: More so-so live sound. Strange tenor sound. Oops, everything’s slowing down: what’s going on? OK, we’re out the other end of the segue, & we get the tenor again. I have NO idea who it is: again the tone is very distinctive so I think if I knew this guy elsewhere I’d instantly recognize him. Ho-hum, a bass solo, no comment. Sweet slightly orientalized flute sound, again very very distinctive whoever it is. Sharp attacking trumpet. A little piano, a little more bass (the leader?). What does the guy say at the end of the piece? I can’t understand it: maybe it’s not English (Japanese?). 8: Bobby Watson. I have his Columbia discs & it’s not them: this is probably a fairly recent disc? Yow, the very full sound comes as a bit of a shock after the last few tracks. Ugh, Bobby’s pushing too hard on the solo: I liked the opening but he gets way too insistent: why can’t he leave a climax alone? Piano solo’s OK, nothing too attention-grabbing. But the track is really all about the rich, upbeat sound & rhythm. 9: Nice moody piano opening. I’m less impressed once the band comes in. Weird pseudo-classical touches on the piano obbligatos. Why does the tempo seem to go up a smidgen each time at the turnaround...? I like this even less once the pianist’s solo starts, which again seems in some ways a bit alien to jazz-piano procedures. Not a hell of a lot happens during the vibes solo, which is impressively vapid. Sorry, this is the first track on the BFT that I think is simply lousy. 10: yikes, this is rather inyerface. I’ve no idea who this is, & don’t get much out of it. Like most of the tracks so far this isn’t exactly subtle.... 11: More odd balance (the horn chart sounds like there’s a missing channel), though I take it that may in part be intentionally part of the wacky arrangement?? I haven’t the faintest what this is. Must be a thankless task tootling on the flute decoratively in this kind of arrangement. A long stretch of nothing happening after the vocalist states the tune (“Nature Boy”). Someone went to a lot of trouble with this chart & has little to show for it. 12: Starts out OK but once the tune comes in this turns terribly blowsy. McCoy Tyner on piano: unmistakable. I don’t like the hectoring sax solo much. Now a little cooling-off interlude for flute, pleasant enough. Sorry, this track is simply too garish for me to take seriously: this is, with 9, one of the things on here I just can’t find any merit in. disc 2: 1: A nice opening - bird calls, tinkling percussion, a really powerful bass drone. Oh, here comes a fast-moving head. Nice stuff – the bass very prominent & powerful. Trumpet solo first – is there some kind of electronic effect on his instrument at points, or is that just the acoustics? Nice declamatory player, all the more effective for being unhurried, a distinctive tone, maybe a little too reliant on a few favourite patterns (that ascending motif), but it’s characterful stuff. More orthodox (& busy) free-jazz alto sax: I’m a litle less interested once he starts to really get frenzied but it does provide a good opportunity for the bass & drums to really throw a log on the fire. Oh, a trombone - somehow I hadn’t registered his presence before during the ensembles. Pretty bruising stuff, maybe too relentless, though he throws in “There Will Never Be Another You” at 14:14 which makes me smile. OK he’s cooling off, as we lead to the bass solo - no hang on, it’s a drum solo. Not a bad drum solo either. Here’s the head again. Hm, they’re moving into a bit I don’t remember from the start of the piece: a new coda? Now the drone bass comes back & we’re back where we started. This is a pretty good track. I have no idea who the players are though I probably should. 2: I know this track well (the original two albums from this gig were recently reissued as a twofer - & are currently on sale at a reduced price, so there’s no excuse not to pick them up). I’ll skip ahead to #3.... 3: Great opening! Is that acoustic or electronic, the bang-bang-bang-bang noise? I hope it doesn’t continue TOO much longer..... OK it’s going on so long now it’s clear it’s sampled. Hm, so I’m still waiting for something to HAPPEN..... OK, more loop stuff. Er, it’s pretty clear we’ve got some circular breathers here, so that narrows things down a bit. This one is going to take a while to reach wherever it’s going I can see - we seem to have reached a combined acoustic + electronic drums passage now. Now we get rid of the buildup & move to straightahead alto sax + trumpet free jazz mayhem with a little synth. It’s William Parker on the bass (well, that’s ALWAYS a safe bet, but I’m sure). This is shaping up to be one of those self-consciously “innovative” Thirsty Ear things. Once the electronics disappear the sound gets rather murky (live concert?). Lots of traffic-horn honking. A very dull trumpet solo, it’s probably Roy Campbell. Bass clarinet, nothing much going on, & so I’m sittign here mostly just wondering what the point was of the electronics-laced opening if most of the track is going to be just some by-the-numbers free-jazz blowout. So now the horns are playing together, & at least the players strike more sparks off each other than they do left to their own devices. Oh, we get a TUNE at the 15:00 mark: three darn notes! By now I’m just sitting here waiting for the track to end: I don’t hate this but it simply isn’t going anywhere interesting. The electronics are notably pointless here if they can’t be bothered to use them for more than a weird opening. 4: Mingus-derived chart but rather weird, some Sun Ra in there too. The alto sax sounds like Sonny Criss crossed with John Zorn! I should know who it is I suspect..... God, the chord changes are a brief cycle but I can’t get a handle on them at all, they don’t go where I expect. The drummer sounds like perhaps Pheeroan akLaff. Probably George Lewis on trombone. I can hear the changes little more clearly in his playing though many it’s because I’m used to them now (& have just cranked up the bass on the stereo). Nice wacked-out trumpet! David Murray, unmistakable: OK this is the Octet! That means my prior i.d.s are surely wrong but I can’t be bothered to go back & revise. Yeah, that’s prime-cut Murray. I don’t always like his stuff but when he’s on he’s great. Talky, interesting 2nd trumpet solo (the sound-quality suggests maybe it’s cornet). OK here’s a big Mingusy pileup, and, oddly enough, a Latin closer. What on earth is this ending doing here? Well, they persist with it enough that it wins me over. On the whole I got more out of the 2nd disc than the 1st--only dip was the dull 3rd track.

OK I'd be interested in doing the next available AOW slot (is that immediately following the Lee Morgan choice or is there already someone signed up following that?). My pick would be the Jones Upon Reflection but I'd also welcome discussion of the Tommy Flanagan disc (which I haven't heard but certainly should), & also of Thad Jones' own music.

Yeah, the Jones is a marvelous disc.....I recently heard Autumn Leaves which reunites Hank & Elvin, but though it's good, it really doesn't touch Upon Reflection. Part of the point of discussing the latter would be that I'm shamefully ignorant of the work of Thad Jones, either solo or as leader of the Jones/Lewis band, & it might be a useful thread. Also to discuss Thad as composer....so far I've not noticed a best vogue for Jones in the way that there is for say the tunes of Nichols or Sonny Clark or Hank Mobley (to name some contemporaries). Though there's at least one other tribute album (by Tommy Flanagan...).

I wouldn't recommend Joe Harriott's Free Form because unless the situation's changed recently it's now out of print. There was a brief period in the late 1990s when Columbia rereleased a bunch of British avant stuff (Riley, Harriott) but they vanished quickly, as usual. -- I assume Spiritual Unity is still available though I've lost track by now of who's got the rights now......the reissue history of ESP-Disk is truly bewildering. Hm, does the AOW always have to be something pretty widely owned by boardmembers? Most of the things I would think of nominating would be outside the Blue Note golden age, even though within the jazz mainstream. E.g. something like Hank Jones' Upon Reflection or Alan Broadbent's Personal Standards or the Braff/Kellaway Inside & Out. But perhaps this would be pointless if the albums weren't in most collections & few people would go to the trouble/expense of purchasing them just for the sake of the AOW.

Hm...at the risk of sounding like a grouch or an impatient sort, I thought I'd ask if perhaps the pace of BFTs might benefit from a goosing? I just did a little math & figured out that at the current rate of progress (nearly 8 BFts since August 2003), at position 34 in the signup list I'd be doing my BFT in May of 2006. & there's 7 other people even further down on the list...!

Hm, I remember that that Melford disc got a pan in The Wire when it appeared. I wonder who wrote it--probably Ben Watson. (It's indexed in the Wire Index online--issue 138--but no author's listed.) I'm not a big fan of Melford but with Ehrlich & Douglas on board it can't be too shabby. So why's no-one fond of Douglas's Constellations? Seems fine to me. Maybe people don't like the general moodiness? It does have a cracking version of "The Gig" on it, nearly as good as the Clusone's lovely reading.

Oh, I've always got time for Jurek bashing.... You've probably seen this Charlie Wilmoth review of the same disc, a carefully executed demolition job: http://www.dustedmagazine.com/reviews/1290 I haven't heard it myself, largely 'cuz I've been giving it a wide berth--I did my penance with Threads. However, I'm also impressed that Jurek's managed to get all hot & bothered about Kalaparush & the Light's Morning Song-- http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A2hq6g4gztv2z --as it's a pretty crummy disc. He's also inexplicably high on Ted Sirota's Breeding Resistance, which is not a bad disc but has certainly got some pronounced ups & downs: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A1ckvu3raan7k

I used to have the disc, got rid of it a little while ago; I got it purely for the Ervin/Young tracks, which are OK but I wouldn't say they were more than OK. A not terribly good drummer, & Young & Ervin don't really work up a big rapport--in fact, Young often starts the tracks alone & then Ervin drops in later. The Poindexter tracks are OK but again didn't get me too excited. I wouldn't grab the disc unless you've already got all of Ervin & Young's A-list stuff. Sometimes there's good reasons why sessions are left in the can.

Yeah, just get my wife & her SABR buddies going on it.... (That's Society of American Baseball Research, for you non-Bill James freaks.)

Well, McIntyre doesn't pay much attention to what the others are doing, so the whole thing comes off as weirdly disconnected, three people playing at each other rather than with each other. Momin's eager but messy, & Dulman simply doesn't seem to have figured out how to play a solo. Some of the tracks are terribly untogether (e.g. track 4, "Noon", where no-one seems to be on the same page), & when McIntyre sits out for one track there's 5 minutes of nothing much happening at all. There's some OK moments, including the brief solo sax piece, but I wouldn't call it a successful album. Is it especially typical of their work? I was expecting something rather better for a 3rd album by the same unit.

Oh, that's funny, just got Morning Song yesterday. Um......I don't like it much, to be truthful. Are the group's other discs any better?

Larry--a belated note to say thanks for digging out Pulsations--that sounds fascinating...!