JSngry

Allow me to say this about that, the very notion of "new" - if I live long enough to get into so-called "Early Music", I know from the little toe-dips I've had, that that shit is going to be new as fuck to me, and I'm going to likely love it until it becomes common in my overall thought process, at which case I will still love it, but in a different way. New is not about the calendar, it's about what you do with the yet-unused parts of your consciousness, and that can come from anywhere in time. Linear time is for business, chumps, and other people loved by the establishment.

And i don't really give that much of a half-fuck about Bobby Watson for exactly that reason. Or most of today's "jazz" for that matter. There was a time when redundancy was needed because the culture was bigger, broader, and less immediately reachable. That world, all of it, is either gone, or so far gone as to might as well be gone. I don't want to hear the last gasps of that, I want to hear people who give me hope, not so much for my future, fuck me, I'll be dead in probably what, 10-20 years? and not so much my kids, because, they've got their own battles to fight, but my granddaughter, specifically her. I want to hear people who are looking forward to a living, exciting greatness of possibilities. What pleasure I get from listening to old music made by dead people is in part nostalgic, but also in part because, you know, those guys were moving ahead, there were journeys implicit and explicit in so much of that music. I don't get any out of that from Grace Kelley and/or any other of these people, because they're taking a test where everybody already knows the answer. It's not just jazz, it seems to be life in general, we have become afraid of the future and the unknown therein. Not without good reason, perhaps, but, you know, fuck fear, fear as a lifestyle does not have a happy ending. Y'all are both crazy then.

it's condescending as fuck to think that she needs to be "protected" or whatever this is...shielded, whatever, from the "criticism" of serious listeners who don't like her playing. She's a successful adult with a successful adult career and is hopefully making serious adult career bucks. If she gave even half a rat's ass about what "people like me" think, she'd no be doing what she's doing as successfully as she is. Are there some other 25-year old male sax-players we can rail on too? I'm sure there are, but I'm blissfully unaware of them, and, completely like Grace Kelley, I'd prefer to keep it that way. But if you wanna play that game, point some out and we can play Eric Alexander redux. You might be surprised at what a total waste of time that turns out to be in terms of moving things ahead, but that's a rich irony best enjoyed with a nice hot cup of decaf.

waitwaitwaitwaitwait....WAIT. Ok? The very first words of this thread were So if somebody doesn't like her at all (nothing to do with gender/age/ethnicity, just DON'T HAVE ANY INTEREST) that's being "unduly picky"? We're responding to a solicitation of thoughts about one specific player and it's "picking on her"? Let me reiterate - she's a hard working, serious, skilled musician, all of which is admirable, and she's fully empowering herself to be whoever the fuck she wants to be, and that is definitely admirable, but when it comes down to her playing, which in a perfect world is what it should always come down to, I really could not care less. I don't think that's being picky, unduly or otherwise. The OP asked for thoughts, here they are. Now, somebody start a thread requesting thoughts about anybody else whose playing I don't care about, regardless of gender/age/ethnicity, the answer will be the same. I hope she makes a millionzillion buck and inspires a generation. But y'all...y'all need to get real about this shit.

These guys? https://www.jacknifejazz.com/new-page-1/ Not gonna ask "why?", I get that, just...I don't like the answer, at least not when phrased like this.

I'm wanting to say that he did a "jazz meets flamenco" thing at a Newport/NY gig a few years before he died, but cannot readily find supportive documentation. But I seem to recall a photo in DB at the time? You don't need Paul Gonsalves to make Diminuendo/Crescendo great jazz!

per the captain, Dinah Shore shoes, dinosaur shoes. not just clever, accurate!

Oh, I said exactly what I meant. And I'd say the same thing about Eric Alexander (to go back a generation), and have. I really don't want to hear her. Or him. Or too much of any of that. It lacks reality to me. I do kind of take offense to the notion that she must have "had it" because of her activities with Phil Woods and Lee Konitz. That's where the matter of strong parental financial support comes in. It's not like there's some other kids who display potential out there, but to get Phil Woods or Lee Konitz to engage/record/etc., they're not volunteer workers. dig? And I'm not saying that they whored out for the bread, just that all things being equal, you find a kid in Rustynail, Montana, they can play, you encourage them, make a friend, stay in touch, etc. But you don't do record dates and other visible encouragements at that level of visibility without getting something back. That's not bad, either, that's how it works. She had "enough" that they could take the money and not feel bad about it, but that's something different, right? So yes, she can play. And yes, she's done and is doing the work. That is how it should be, always. But I don't care if Chevrolet's making better cars than ever, they're still not making Hondas. Times have moved on, things are different now. Let's see if Tesla makes a real run, maybe we can in a few years say, say, Honda's making better cars than ever, but they're still not making Teslas. Or maybe we can say that Tesla promised big but delivered small. Either way, Chevrolet is not The Car Of Today, Tomorrow, or ever again. I actually like that she's doing her pop-approach and all the fashion/choreography stuff. These are the times, and more people engaging in that instead of looking backward in memorium. But I do not have any interest in hearing her except in passing (if that).

Seriously?

I've "seen" her play live fairly recently, there are YouTube videos. And although the skills have become more fluent, the content - as I hear it - remains about the same, which is to say, honestly, that I don't give a shit, not even a little bit. Those who do, enjoy, it's there for you, and unless tragedy befall this still-young life, will be for a long time to come. Now, do you mean have I been in the same room as she was while she was playing? No, I have not, nor do I plan, under the current dynamic, on my life going in a direction where that ever happens. Fate, cruel three-legged mutton that it is, might have other outcomes in store, but we'll deal with that if and when it happens.

That describes soooooo many life experience on encounters in the pursuit of immediate (or sooner) gratification, some involving humans, some not, but all rooted in the inner need for a comforting predictable external outcome with a minimum expending of inner effort.

It's true, to evolve from a tentative lack of substance to a confident lack of substance is the mark of an evolving evolution nevertheless, in context, ergo, nothing from nothing leaves nothing, but you can charge more for it, so damn the torpedoes, full speed parallel!

Come to think of it, there was plenty cup mute in bebop, which leads to the question - the Harmon mute had been around for a while, but generally used with the stem in. Where do we see the first documentations (classical and jazz) of it being used with the stem out? Miles certainly popularized it, but was he the first to do it?

How many "classical" records have been made by recording segments, not movements, but segments, and then spliced together from the best takes? Many, I think. I'd like to think of it as the difference between live theatre and movies. Also, if the real intent of a jazz record is to document improvisation, really, we all have our gut reflexes, but think about what Eric Dolphy said, and think about why people are driven to improvise, and then think about the inherent conflicts there, not necessarily, but still, conflicts nevertheless. For a musician, yes hearing yourself play can be useful for study purposes, but for general audiences, the almost-certain intent of documentation/recording is to present, at some level or another, a frozen picture of a liquid moment in the illusory guise of a solid object. People needs to think this through, just sayin'.

Miles played with a cup mute on some of the Bird sides.

Glad to hear that!

She's had the benefit of strong parental financial backing from the beginning, correct? That has nothing to do with her playing, but maybe a lot to do with her early visibility opportunities. Frankly, her playing with Woods and Konitz, I don't think she played that well, really, and it definitely sounded like she was the beneficiary of some "product placement". not a bad thing, but, yeah...

I think the mid-late 80s was when he seemed to switch over to mostly muted playing, which was the original question.

Historical Lester, that's where I've heard most of the 1944 Prez/Basie. Maybe it's not all up to that level?

Teo, obviously not. Bill Evans (sax) seemed to be, at best, ambiguous about it. Me, I don't care. Those records...Teo knew what he was doing and why he was doing it. My respect for Teo grows as time passes. I think he was probably a, uh..."difficult" person in many ways in many times, but oh well. Time will sort out all that.

Bill Evans (sax) said that Teo would routinely do the same thing to his solos.

The mile has not been the same since. What is it now, a meter? Look what happened to all those meters!!!!! Damn you, Roger Bannister.

dies at 92 while drinking whiskey and watching the Oscars...that's up there with having your heart give out while watching/laughing at a vaudeville act on the Jimmy Dorsey show! one way or another, the SOB got enough of my money that I don't feel obligated to say RIP or whatever. and I'd do it all again.

These young people, with their sexiness and choreography, they're going to ruin music for unsexy people who won't dance. Young women, especially, there's just no place for that kind of thing in today's world. Apart from that, whatever she's doing, serious music or otherwise, I don't care. Matana Roberts, that's another deal altogether. Hope she's doing ok these days, had a big spurt of very intense music and then, what, chilling out for a bit? NOT asbestos, merci beaucoup very much. Wish the rest of the album laid in there like this one, oh well.