JSngry

Whatever "narrative" there might have been has turned into a running joke about the Civilian Expert Audio Enthusiasts who take a serious discussion between two Experienced Soldiers Of Recordist/Performing War and get excited about asses being handed and some such. Relishing a chance to call somebody a jerk. Truly Civilian behavior. Spectators! HEY TROUT, LEARN HOW TO SMILE WITHOUT SMIRKING! Latest punchlines in the joke: What's missing in all of the dismissals of the science of sound is the simple fact that if it wasn't for this science stuff, there wouldn't be any sounds in your house. That wasn't a scientific observation. It was simply a statement of fact. Mr Jones: Heeeeeeere's science! Mr. Smith: That's not science, Mr. Jones that's simply a statement fact! Are you certain Mr. Smith? Positivily, Mr. Jones (bom bom bom bom) You guys played the Palace back in the day, right? NO SOUNDS IN MY HOUSE? Dude, there are ALL kinds of sounds in my house, foundation settling, refrigerators running, birds from outside, traffic noises from up the road sometimes, people snoring, all that shit is gonna be there whether or not there's a perception or understanding of the science as to why I can hear those sounds or not. That sound is not created by science, science explains why it is there. Science can help me block the noise, or eliminate the source of it, science can do a whole big lot of shit, but science just sitting there being all theoretical and shit does not mean that their are automatically no sounds in my house. Ignunt Caveass Motherfuckers still had sound in their houses, just watch the Flintstones if you don't believe that, that shit tells it like it is. "Argument"? The only "argument" there was to be had was whose business it is how people make their records, and unless you and/or Kevin have any recording projects in the works that you're planning on sharing with the class, you have no place in that discussion because you have nothing at stake there. Allen was, to use a popular phrase" inartful" in his expression of this, but the point still stands - him and Jim MAKE this stuff, you guys CONSUME it, each has a role, but unless you hear something in either's work that you find improper, inadequate, or objectionable, it ain't your talk, not that one. Y'all's argument is with fellow Civillian Audio Enthusiasts about how $500 Testicle Warmers do or do not increase the bloodflow to your ears allowing for a 23% more releaxed reception of soundwaves coming out of rawhide covered speakers. Y'all go ahead and have that argument, that'll be fun. I like the back and forth between Allen & Jim, two totally mindsets at work. Allen's the guy who plays with different 78 styli, tonearm angles, non-standard uses of noise reduction software, a real hands-on one-off, and his music reflects this, quirky, homemade, and always justified. Jim's a hard core objectivist, he can explain everything he does in terms of data, and deep data at that. His music reflects that as well, in sound and substance, cool, well-constructed, nothing left to randomness, and as with Allen, always justified. And in their back and forths, the differences are obvious, they represent the yin and yang of the hotly subjective experientialist vs that cool objective dataist, and ultimately they are both only as "right" or as "wrong" as their finished products. Theirs is a discussion between front-end producers, not end-use consumers. You guys sitting in the stands cheering on with the pompoms and stuff and the cheerleaders chanting KICK THAT ASS/ KICK THAT ASS! ...stay in the seats, please.

A keen AND astute scientific observation. I wondered why I go deaf as soon as I step inside the crib. Thanks, Kevin, mystery solved!

Nah, Giant Steps was not meant to be a religion. It's a math equation on the way to...wherever one hopes to get to. But beware of false prophets! Solve the math and win The Prize! Now this...you tell me, is this science or religion? Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill!

Well, shit. That was a ride. RIP Aw hell, Binky!

So, what, he just got lucky more than a few times? Seriously?

But seriously...

Well, maybe not your part of the conversation.

And yet...a very few notes escape the touch of the Autotune, how is that even possible? FIX IT!

Well, no, not really fair. The "creative process" (whatever that "really" "is") depends on the germination of an idea which then incubates, develops, and finally gets followed through to fruition. This can take years, or it can take seconds, or microseconds (aka Bird). However long it takes, the one thing it requires is a certainty that, after all examinations and mullings, the idea can, should, and will be borne in a manner that justifies all the work. Not necessarily that it's "good"or even "great", just that hey, I did the work, I got the results, now let's see what we've got. Learn from its failures, find room for improvement, discard it if it doesn't really suit, but above all else, get it done. Can't move forward until you get it done. This whole chain is predicated on the notion that the idea can be realized, that if it is not real now, it can be made real. You start telling somebody who operates on that basic premise that any part of what they hear (or "hear") is false, you undermine their basic premise. Data ain't got shit to do with that, science ain't got shit to do with that, not at this level. This is instinct (and I'm sure science is already working to figure that out, but so far...). You gonna fuck with somebody's creative instincts, intentionally or otherwise, hell yeah they gonna resist. And hell yeah they should. This is not to say that all instinct is good, or that knowledge is not useful to refining instincts. It is just to say that to get from "what you think you are hearing is not real" to "you are not hearing what you think you are hearing" to "you CAN'T be hearing that because it's not real" is a route undertaken with any real initiative only if the goal is to get the person on the other side to admit that "no, I do not hear it. Well, I hear it, but no, I won't hear it, can't hear it...even though I do hear it". That's some seriousass soul-breaking if you ask me, not a fan. This is music we're talking about, sound, vibrations received through our body and processed by our brain. Recorded music at that, by definition one step removed from "reality" the second it comes into being. Hearing it is a very intimate activity, you are letting things into your body that are put there by somebody else. On the one end, you have total withdrawal, never on, on the other end, free porn, 24-7, always there, always hard and wet, always on, NEVER off. In between, there are...options. Options and possibilities. Nobody gets permanently damaged from thinking they hear 24-bit as being truly better than 16-bit. Some very few might actually really hear it. But we're not talking psychotic breaks here (although hey, breaks, one of the more delightful aspects of modern music), we're talking about arguing technology and data and quantifiable shit, and some of y'all got no skin in that game but as consumers. I'm waaaay more ok with people getting suckered out of money because they wanna be cool than I am by somebody getting up in my face and telling me that I don't hear reality-based sound. You civilians, discuss amongst yourselves, y'all save each other money and space and shit, go for that, and when I want advice about a TV or a coffee pot or a desk fan or some shit like that, let me in. Soldiers Of Creativity, do the same. The conversations will overlap. But please, everybody, do not project the ignorance of thinking that it "matters" in the same way to both groups. Bits, shits. Data is objective. Reaction is not. Creation is definitely not. For that I am thankful, at least as it applies to the creation/reproduction of music. One Size does not fit all unless there really IS One Size. There isn't. So no, not really fair.

Allen will not quit, which is all that matters. Whatever he thinks he hears, he will proceed accordingly. He will make something that did not exist before and that will be real. So, yeah. Lowe FTW.

Nah, this is more than adequate. Enjoy!

Looks like I'm gonna be stuck on this one today. No complaints!

No mixed message or contradictory sentiments there. All right, then! Now... I will defend him and his right to hear shit that ain't real. It comes out as his music as a result. Can't everybody do that. Not everybody should try that, either, but hey. Life is dangerous. Beauty can be ugly. Surround yourself with perpetual predictable perfection and...uh, wait...isn't there a whole genre of...stuff based on this? And none of it is comforting? Except when it's from the Very Disturbing Parts Of History? Nah, give me Lowe's unreal reality over that any day. Or night...especially the night. God Bless Science, and God Damn Fascism. Long may they remain enemies and not partners. Hope springs eternal! And feeling like a serf is one's own choice, so own that one yourself.

Well, it's not a false narrative that he got pissed off enough at the creation of what in his mind was a false narrative (that he wasn't really hearing what he in his mind knew he was hearing) that he booked (this is not new behavior, and I hope he returns in his own time). But Allen Lowe's "board behavior" is of at best minor consequence to me here. Y'all gotta realize that be it Allen Lowe, Jim Alfredson, anybody who makes music, their internal perceptions are what drives the whole process. You come up throwing science and objectivity into the mix, that is so not relevant to their creative process. Sometimes they can separate the science from the intangible (I think Chuck Nessa is a master at this, based on his life's work), but I don't see any indication that Allen is one who can. I for damn sure don't see how he needs to be. So whether you realize it or not, whether you mean to or not, when you tell the guy that what he thinks he hears doesn't really exist, that's not a civilian/consumer argument about Audio Snake Oil to him. That's a fundamental denial of the validity of his whole creative process. Like, hey, you can't hear reality, what you hear isn't real. Well, for a person whose existence is predicated on hearing what they hear turning into music that everybody can hear, that's kind of an...invasive charge. Myself, I find any notion that there is One True Sound laughable, and borderline fascistic. The data is objective, the reception/perception definitely need not be. Is it dangerous for people to hear shit that ain't there? Of course it is. But it's at least that much dangerous to insist that everybody hear the same data the same way. What kind of a nightmare world is that? An Anti-Science Fascist and A Science Fascist are still Fascists, and yeah, I can hear the argument now, there can be no such thing as Science Fascists, that Science is Objective & True, so it is Inherently Non-Fascistic, and, yeah, good luck on that one. Start trying to tell people that what they hear isn't real, think about what you have to do to really win that argument, and then have a Coke and a Smile. Allen Lowe makes his records how he hears them. Bad science or not.

I don't think you can - or should - leave yourself out of the review entirely, if you do, you just provide data, not information. But I do think a good reviewer, (as opposed to just a fan with an outlet) needs to bring an informed self to not just the review, but to the music. Especially to the music, because without that informed view of the music, you can put in a lot of work and craft and write a perfectly good review that is absolutely ignorant about what it is that is being reviewed. A+ on style, F- on substance. You're not doing that, so yeah, keep on not doing that, and keep on doing what you are doing!

A fair point, sensibly addressed. Correction made to reflect.

So you don't care how he makes his records, you don't care if you like those records or not, you just want to give him shit about the bad science that he uses to make those records? That's good, I guess.

I get that science because science, and I get that informed consumers make better cost-effective decisions. What I don't get is why anybody gives a shit about how Allen Lowe makes his records unless they're like, hey, dude, your shit could cost less and sound just as good, trust me on this one, here let me pay for your production costs, that's how much I care. And really, I don't get why Allen Lowe should care how anybody else makes their records. He spends his money, he makes his music, he makes his records. I do get why he gets on the megaphone about how reissues get fucked up, because that happens, although whether or not it always happens like he says it does, I can't always say. But those are products he's a consumer of, so yeah, he's got an interest. But how Allen Lowe, or Organissimo, or anydamnbody makes their own records is nobody's business but their own, and if Allen Lowe has somehow tricked himself into hearing something that's not really there, more power to him. He needs to go with what he hears, real or otherwise, to get his shit to sound the way he wants it to. Otherwise, send him to an Audio Reeducation Camp and don't let him out until he hears the error of his ears.

Done.

What kind of a world is it where fake crap is worse than real crap? It's a world gone wrong, that's what kind of world it is.

It's the overall badassness of the sound, so yeah, that's part of it. also part of it is that, the way it makes me feel, a cello being bowed hard in the lower ranges creates a sound that is erotically primal, the way the bow rubs the strings and the way the strings give it back and then some, that's just, like, pure sex to me, not porn sex, real sex, unbound intimacy. And the way the upper registers sing out in a way that has no top nor bottom, that is ecstasy as far as I am concerned.

Not MY MVP!

Regarding Lulu...you may or may not find it interesting to go back and hear older recordings of the earlier performances. There's live things available from pretty early on, and the evolution of the performances are really remarkable. The "difficulty" is very real, but as the unfamiliarity goes away, it becomes a different difficulty, one of execution, less one of understanding. And now, it seems that it has reached that peak of everybody knows the hows, everybody knows the whys, it's a challenge, but it's no longer "unsingable" and all that, it's the kind of thing that just soars with rightness. At some point, I've no doubt that it will become tired and clichéd, but not in my lifetime, surely. It is indeed a wondrous piece, and yeah, put it in my bucket list too.

Big picture, big music, these guys are worth the time.