JSngry

To say nothing of The Treniers.

I mean, there was dancing going on in those South Side clubs where all the "real" Chicago blues were getting played...

Has anybody ever looked at the evolution of the dances that were being danced to these musics as a part of the evolution of the music itself, including "harder" blues? I mean, it's not like this stuff was designed as concert music that people just happened to decide to start dancing to...

Liebman uses the phrase "intentional-direct harmony", which doesn't mean that the melodies are not linked to an underlying harmony (that is ultimately impossible, although just as with standards, there are any number of possible harmonies that could go with the melody. What it means is that Ornette simply doesn't set up recurring chord changes as the basis for improvisation, simple as that. As far as everybody sounding like they're playing in a different room, ok, that's subjective up to a point, but damn, the early Atlantic albums...the harmonic simpatico on display there between the horns & the rhythm section is pretty strong, if one can hear harmony outside of the realm of preset chord changes. If one can't then one is outta luck there, I guess... Are those being presented as the same thing?

Got any more?

Oh, I agree completely. From experience, I know that the more (and the more often) you play out, the more overall positive stimulation you get. I just don't buy the notion that if everybody was able just chill out & "focus on their art", so to speak, that we'd see a resultant increase in work of substance. I think we'd just see a bunch of not-so-creative people being less public with their not-so-creativeness, which, yeah, that would as much a gain to the overall landscape as would be seeing those same people reach a higher level of not-so-creativeness. Six of one, apples and oranges of the other, really.

otoh, what steady gigs usually do for people who don't really have all that much to say is to broaden their ways to say it. I don't know of any "process" that will make somebody interesting, perceptive, original, whatever. Either you are or you aren't. Them that are usually/eventually find ways to protect & nurture it as best they can under any given set of circumstances. Them that aren't find ways to avoid confronting it, including avoiding silence (at many different levels).

My experience has been that people usually don't let not having a whole lot to say get in the way of them saying it. That's the bad news. Of course, the good news is that for those who feel that obscurity, limited opportunity, and general lack of interest will give them something more to say, opportunities abound!

Mr. Tracy was involved in the board here for a quick minute a while back...I sent him a PM about this very matter, but never got a reply...I also recall DEEP mentioning that he had heard that Don Elliot was involved, but that was stipulated to be hearsay.

Failing that, is there any technical explanation?

Type a post, click the post button, and sometimes it works like it should. But sometime it takes me back to the main page, w/o the post going through. But then I use the back arrow & there the post is waiting to be posted, so I click the post button again, and voila, it's all good. There appears to be no pattern either. Any ideas? In fact, it just happened when I tries to post this!

Hell, it all fit on one LP (Prestige 7650), it would definitely fit on one CD.

Is this being presented as fact or opinion? Either way, again, it depends on what you're looking for...

The level of comedy is actually pretty high...the obvious and sublime are present in equal measure.

Was that a speculative or confirmed lineup?

Dude, the end has come and gone!

Ok....back in the 70s I had a couple of "weird experiences", one of which involved a voodoo curse being placed on me & my then-girlfriend...took care of that by going to see a Chango (at the advice of a Hispanic preist, who made it very clear that we should not do this just for entertainment or out of curiosity), which since your wife is a Wiccan, will probably not be a palatable choice since they both more or less work in the same realm, just that the Chango has the whole Catholic overlay thing going on...my experience had a very, uh..."spooky" (yet ultimately positive) outcome which I do not care to go into here. But in South Florida, you should not have too hard a time finding a Chango should you care to. There is a lot of "show business" involved, but such is the nature of this entire realm, as you are finding out. Other than that...the whole thing about matter/energy/whatever being neither created nor destroyed coupled with the reality (if you believe physics, and why not believe physics) that there are more than just the three dimensions that we consciously experience every day lay open a whole lot of possibilities that we can not, as of yet, explain rationally. This type of thing can even be found in the Old Testament, which mentions a seance (iirc, the expression "handwriting on the wall" stems from this story), and there's that whole cryptic passage about "the sons of God looked upon the daughters of men and found them fair, and took of them wives as they chose." WTF is that supposed to be about? So it's not like this thing is all medieval, Druid-esque fantasy, there is a somewhat "universal" history to it. Now, is it real? Well, if by real you mean can you see it and know that you're not imagining it, then yes, it is real. As to what it is, really is, I'd not bet good money on anybody really knowing. I do believe that for everything there is a rational, scientific explanation, but I also believe that there are some things that our rationality and scientific awareness are light years away from even beginning to get a grip on. So until it does, we "interpret" what is going on, and if that means anthropomorphizing inter-dimensional vibrational activity in "spirits" and such, hey, so be it. Of course, there may actually be inter-dimensional spirits. None of us can really prove it one way or the other. But I feel safe in saying that acknowledging the likelihood of inter- (or even intra-) dimensional vibrational activity as a by-product of what we know about energy and physics and "believing in ghosts" are not even remotely the same thing. So where do you go from here? Hell if I know...my experiences were not with the non-malevolent "forces" and I myself have reached a firm conclusion that I know just enough about the "paranormal" to know that what I know now is all I ever want to know. Ever. What I do not know, I resolutely do not want to find out...and there's not too may things about which I will say that. But - if you and Sue and the dogs think you have it under control, and if you are all convinced that three is no danger of this thing ever going bad (and that may or may not be a gamble, if you knwo what I mean...), me, I'd either look to get away from it altogether or just make my peace with it being there and not look to stir up any more shit with it. Because when you do, you are playing "their" game on "their" terms on "their" turf, and no matter how badass any motherfucker might be, them are not good odds for anybody with good sense to take.

HAHAHA I HAVE AN ORIGINAL US CAPITOL SWIRL PICTURE SLEEEVE 45 THAT I BOUGHT IN 1967! OMFG THAT IS HOW I WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER I AM THE WALRUS - IN REAL TIME ON A REAL $% ON A REAALLY SHITTY RECORD PLAYER AND I WIL ALWAYS LOVE IT LIKE THAT! and oh, by the way, people who wanna get really into I Am The Walrus might want to do a Google search for "Walrus, Eggman & Pinguins" and peruse the results... I'm just sayin'... The tape of the original BBC broadcast that was used for this has surivied and can be heard if you know where to look. Once again, I'm just sayin'...

oh-HO! What a rich field this is!

Hey, I'm a veritable barrel of monkeys. Stinky DEAD monkeys!

Wellsir, Vernard is from Ft. Worth, and I know you know that Fort Worth does not equal Dallas...

Yeah, I got that, and it's all good, but nowhere in that quote does Ornette mention a total lack of tonal center, which would be my only bone of contention here, the claiming that such a lack is present, when it in fact (usually) isn't. It's like the people who say that Trane's last solos have no structure. In fact they do, and as transcriptions have proven it's fairly easily discernible once it all gets broken down like that (and yeah, breaking it down like that is a lot of work, and the issue of how much effort people should be expected to expend in getting there is perfectly legit). So if people say they don't like it or can't hear it, I (usually) don't quibble. But when they say that there's "no structure" there, I do, because there is. Same thing with Ornette & tonal centers. They're there. Now if by tonal center, you mean "reoccurring chord changes", then no, they aren't there. But "tonal center" and "reoccurring chord changes" are not the same thing.

But...quite often, usually, in fact, there is an overall tonal center! The key word there being "overall'... Ok, dislike what you like for whatever reasons, cool, but at least know the facts of what it is you don't like!

Jones did some charts for Ellington, iirc.

Eyes WIDE open! She seems very comfortable being who she is. Nice!