JSngry

You must understand that CD sales alone generally generate nowhere near the amount needed to be considered a "sustainable income" for a musician with a family. The best that can be hoped for is, again, ususally), enough to put back into the next project. So you gotta finda other ways to generate income, & that means live gigs, merchandising, etc. That's where a/the "industry machine" comes in handy, and if that's a market that is currently being served (with varying degrees of efficiency) by various agents/PR firms, then it must be examined how much more effectively those needs could be served by the possible synergy created by combining those duties with the ability to supply the actual product itself. The otehr alternative for the established biggies is to focus more and more on publishing, multimedia products, and other consumer items that either have a built-in return (you don't have to pay anybody to write a song, but if you own it, hey...) or currently demonstrable growing market. But that's no fun!

Just found this site: http://www.beyondjazz.net/ Looks like a good source of podcasts: http://www.beyondjazz.net/radio/ The use of the word "jazz" here (and many other such places) is at first disconcerting/offputting, but after having spent some time with this type music, I think I understand what they think they mean.

Also interesting to me is that in Chicago, one of the "birthplaces" of House and always a healthy residence for musics that lay in the cut between "dance" and "jazz", Kalil El Zabar has been doing some house/jazz mixtures ("fusion" is both a loaded and not wholly accurate word), Nicole Mitchell did some sort of Masters thesis on the music, and Pevin Everett, a jazz trumpeter of some expertise, has developed a little cottage industry (is there such a thing as a large cottage industry?) making quirky self=produced house music, including hand-drawn painted covers. So the notion that some "jazz people" could be attracted to some of this music on its own terms is not at all an unreasonable one.

Masters at Work, Vega/Dope, Nuyoriqan Soul

Check out Benson w/MAW.

Fair enough. I don't think you're going to like any of the purer forms of house, you don't strike me as that type of guy (no insult intended, jsut that old-schoolers like you got your own thing and it works for you, and that's as it should be). But you might find some of the "jazzier" forms something that, if you don't exactly like them, at least something that you'll be "glad to know about", if for no other reason than to reassure you that the field of contemporary club/dance music is not a total wasteland... Allow me to suggest: (the 2CD "expanded edition" is actually the better musical experience) Goofy-ass cover, but solid music Just downloaded this podcast and am really enjoying it so far: http://broadcast.underground-fusion.com:80...%20classics.mp3 Lots of other stuff to recommend, but the nature of the market is that things are pressed in samll quantity, are often import, and go OOP really quickly. If by any chance you dig these enough to go further, gimme a shout and something can be done. One thing though, if you got a...."philosophical issue" with things like drum machines, sampling, etc. above and beyond to what uses they are or are not put to, as well as with musical energy explicity and unambiguously devoted the stirring of the body, then it's probably best to just....stay away.

Oh Shrdlu, I almost forgot, there is a distinct subgenre of House - Gospel House - that combines old-school sanctified vocals and lyrics with house beats and productions. Kenny Bobien, Stephanie Cooke, Ann Nesby, Jasper Street Co., these are some of the dominant names in this area of the music, but there's actually a fair amount going on http://www.basementboys.com/main.htm http://www.creativesoulsartists.com/index.htm http://www.annnesby.com/ Thought you might like to know.

Are you referring to embracing CDs or embracing downloads? CDs. The industry was built on the notion that if you wanted the best possible (i.e. - most durable, best sounding) product, that you would need to buy it. Once digital technology identical reproduction a viable otpion for consumers, Pandora's Box was opened, and the death of that paradigm began. Anybody with any sense could have seen that consumer copying ability for digital naterial was going to come sooner or later. Consumer copying ability always comes. What I think is that the industry was in a pnaic of it's own making due to several things, the first phases of Baby Boomer aging and changing spending habits being one of them, as well as the trend towards portabilty as a high consumer priority. So rather than think this thing out logically and long-term, they went apeshit over the CD (Portabilty! Back Catalog in PERFECT sound! INDESTRUCTABLE!), got immediate results, and killed their industry as a result. "The industry" now pretty much has no choice left but to serve as a promotional agency now, since the necessity of their participation in the creation and dissemenation of actual music grows less every day. Anyboy with a will and a way (or even a nickel and a nail) can find a cheap digital recording situation and put the results online. You don't need a label for that anymore. But what you still do need is promotion of a majorly coordinated and networked type, and this is something that the industry still has (at least int heory. Maybe they've totally cannabilised themselves by now...). A label can still do better than an individual entity in gettign airplay, creating promotional tools/materials that "work", providing tour support/coordination, etcetcetc. And that's what I think the industry is going to shift its focus to, rahter than keep trying to find a new way to sustain the "create & sell product" paradigm. Of course, the changeover will probably never be complete, nor do I suspect that it will be particularly sudden. But if I were a betting man (well, ok I am a betting man...) and if I was a young & hungry talent ready to roll into Wider Public Awareness (definitely not that...), I would be working like hell at finding somebody at some label to take me on, not as a "Recording Artist" but as a "Distribution/Promotion Client". And since I am a betting man, here's fittysint saying that we'll see this sooner than later.

Thanks for this info! I also turn to podcasts, some of more consistency than others. http://www.radiogotsoul.com/archives/index.php is a treasure trove, although soem DJs mixes are more consistently to my liking than others. http://www.digital-djs.com/podcast/SolidGround/ I really like most of this guy's programming, but his commentary over the music gets out of hand sometimes. It is, howver, a good way to hear a lot of the more overtly jazz-influenced dance music being made today. Most of the Hardcore Old Schoolers here will probably be repulsed, but that's cool. And THIS chick: http://www.digital-djs.com/podcast/iMix/default.asp?id=10455 , hey. if more men had more women with this much musical savvy by thier sides as life/career partners, the world would be be an exponentially better place almost, like...immediately!

Maybe not (or maybe so!), but I bet their kids do. (just as I didn't see Glen Miller fans getting all excited about James Brown....) Something to keep in mind, though, is that the type of House that I listen to (and I imagine Shrdlu as well) is not going to be heard on the radio, on MTV, on TV in general, or even "mainstream" clubs. This stuff is very specific to its own crowd, and unlike the ubiquitously booming bass beats of hip-hop, you're not likely to find it unless you go looking for it. Plus, so much of what is on the market as "dance music" is roboticized, synthetic, Pavlovian garbage. That kind of stuff you will hear without looking for it, and for years I thought that this type of "dance music" and "house music" were the same thing. And maybe at one point they were, I don't know. All I know is that over the last 7-10 years or so there's apparently been something going on away and apart from that type crap, becasue you talk to devotees of "Deep House" and you'll find out that they have no use for it either, and for precisely the same reasons I don't. You'll also find that the many of the people who are into the underground stuff value things like soulful vocals (of which there are many), live playing (of which there is more than you might think, Vega/MAW use a bassist name Gene Perez who is a freakin' GROOVE MONSTER), jazz harmony (comes out the wazoo in the best stuff), improvisation (not a lot of it, but again, more than you might expect, and on Vega's stuff in particular, it's frequently done by Names You Know), and above all, the "spiritual" aspects of the rhythms and the dancing. It's that last aspect that I've been picking up on more than any of the others myself. Not for nothing have I valued a good "groove" in my music over the years (and that includes music where the beat is implicit rather than explicit. Roscoe Mitchell, for instance, grooves like a MF if you know where he puts it). But shoot, Pops, Basie, Trane, all them cats touch something beyond just "toe taapping" with their rhytmic impeti. They move the soul as well as the feet. So making a spiritual connection with rhythm is not something I shy away fro, Hell, life moves in rhythm, the most fundamental particles of creation vibrate in rhythm. So...yeah, I don't at all think it silly or anything else derogatory to look at dancing and rhythm as having a spiritual component. Far from it. And as I've said before, I think that too much of today's jazz is being made by too many people for whom "dance" represents only the lowest common denominator acting out of substance-induced hormonal suicide. Either that, or people who are so uncomfortable with their own physicality/sensuality/spirituality that "dancing" represents some Calvinistic Violation Of The Will Of The All-Punishing God, and you know I ain't got time for that! I guess all I'm saying is that there is some quality stuff going on, musically and "spiritually" (I use quotes, becasue that's going to mean so many different things to so many different people, yet a common thread will probably run through all of them) in some areas of some recent dance music, that it's not something you're going to find unless you look in some pretty specific places, and no, it's not for everybody. Nothing is. But unless and until one has heard some specific examples of this music, then one runs the risk of thinking that they have an opinon of something which they may well in fact have never heard. I can tell you in total honesty that that would have been me less than two years ago. To say that I was blindsided but all the...substance I found is putting it mildly. I can also tell you that the electronic storytelling-through-rhythm-and-color of OTC-through-Pangea Miles is directly relevant to much of this music, in intent if not always in style, so if that stuff don't work for you at all, then hey, probably best to not bother.

I heard that!

Jose Feliciano Cheo Feliciano Dee Felice

If "the industry" wanted to survive, it should have never embraced digital as a retail format. If you want a textbook example of a blind pursuit of immediate gratification leading to long-term destruction, this it it. The good news is that seeing recorded music as "product" is gradually going to fade away as it becomes less and less viable to do so. The bad news is that seeing recorded music as "product" is gradually going to fade away as it becomes less and less viable to do so. Although, somebody besides a fool such as I might want to ask if We The People are capable of distinguisihing between the variously motivated types of "product".

Cowboys/Packers....I gotta go with the old man. Farve is not to be dismisses or disrespected. The Cowboys still don't have "soul" yet, and this cat has it in spades. All part of the learning curve. Dallas is getting there, but there's still some curve.

For those of us who remember Dizzy Dean (especially with a few Falstaffs in him...),this is just a continuation of a great tradition not at all incomaptable with the requirements of the job. Kinda not like being The Leader Of The Free World or whatever. if you know what I mean...

Shrdulu, I've been off into house for about a year and a half nw, and those are all new names to me! Some of my favorite producers/players/etc (sometimes it all blends together becuase of the technology, sometimes because the of roles) have become Louie Vega, Masters At Work (Vega teaming w/Kenny Dope), Joe Claussell, DJ Spinna, Kerri Chandler, and a few others I'm not bringing readily to mind because I've not yet had my coffee... But these are all guys who put the emphasis on the musicality of their work, not just the functionality, and I find the results equally satisfying for both the body and the mind. As you note, the is a lot of creativity going on inthis music and although at one lvele, the functional aspect of it leads to one set of "realities", above and beyond that, it's not at all "predictable" in a lot of other ways, and the way that this music defines different levels of time and space simultaneously is not at all simple or cliched, and is actually pretty...profound. Yes - profound. HAve you at all checked out the presominately London-based "Broken Beat" scene? This stuff is often explicity coming at dance music from a jazz perspective in terms of harmony and rhythmic sophistication/intensity, although in style it's a lot like the mosre advanced funk/fusion (and don't be put off by the "fusion" word - these guys can take realy complex rhtyhms and make them swing, not at all stiff or ponderous like the worst fusion...) Leading names are Mark de Clive Lowe, Bugz In The Attic, 4Hero, and the solo work of the various members thereof. Thre's also a lot of good stuff coming out of Japan from Kyoto Jazz Massive, UFO (Untied Future Organization), Mondo Grosso, and, again, the solo work of the various members thereof. Europe is alos well represnted, again with a lot of names I can't remember because I've not yet had my coffee... And of course, there is Monday Michiru, a woman whose sensibilities & musics are...as Ellington siad, "beyond category". The "dance underrground" (yeah, it's an genuine MOVEMENT! ) has lately been providing the vast majority of my musical stimulation & surprises. In no way can/will it "replace" anything from the past, but it's interesting to me to look at a from of purely functional "social" music gradually becomeing a vehicle for actual musical/creative expression above and beyond its base functionality. Of course, that functonality is nothing to hide from, dancing is one of humankind's most basic and joyous activities doe as long as anybody can tell, and sociteties who don't dance are...problematic, it seems to me. But looking back at how jazz evolved, it's hard for me not to see some parallels... Of course there are differences, but there are definitely similartities. Definitely

Scurillious!!!

Go to this page http://home.ica.net/~blooms/tormehome.html and contrast the content with what the page shows as its title. Scurillious!!!

Bobby Troop Julie London Jack Webb

Linc Julie Pete

I find the above reference to animal genitalia in crude streel language totally inappropriate (what do horse penises have to do with Jennifer Lopez' referencing Joe Maini in an obscure interview from 1998, anyway?), to the point which I recommend that the poster be banned. I mean, I'm no prude, but there must be certain standards of decency that we all respect.

Max Roach's drum tuning and solo articulation was to jazz drumming what Jackie Wilson's vocal timbre and enunciation were to 1950s male R&B singing.

By the time it's over, you should cross over into Nationalist. Cross you fingers! Been listenng some more to this, and musically, this stuff is tight. Part aspiring professionalism, part Chigago tradition, part Nationalistic-inspired aspirations to excellence, part raw talent, part...whatever. But there it is, and it is good. And the more I hear bands like this, The Pharoahs, The Artistic Heritage Ensemble, The Awakening, and all the other cross-pollinational outfits from that late-60s/early-70s Chicago scene, the more I come to realize that what the "rest of us" took as a really good band in Earth Wind & Fire was actually sort of a summation and bursting out/forth of an entire subculture.

Wow, all that's missing is Ed Herlihy: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Pag...sh1107&sid=

Well, ok, but I'm not sure that approching music "from back to front" is necessarily a good thing in all cases. I mean, how far back is back enough, and will you ever have time to get caught up to now? Iused to think thatthat was the way to go, but now....I'm not so sure. Something to be said for being in the now and discovering the past as the opportunity presents itself as opposed to the other way 'round. But then again, we're talking a 30+ year old album versus an almost 10 year old one, so it's all relative.