JSngry

Is it live? If not, my guess would be some of the older Vee-Jay sides. He did lots of standards there, and they've been repackaged some over the years. What are the songs, anyway? What are their length? Is there a guitarist? Strings?

Oklahoma got the oil, baby, Texas got the money to buy it with.

Honey, your legs so big, they look like Willie Mays' bseball bat.

Hey, readily available! http://product.half.ebay.com/Jimmy-Reed_W0...141532QQtgZinfo

Jimmy Reed Simple as that. OOP now, I think, it's a 1991 issue, but I'm sure that it, or the material on it, have gotta still be out in some form. I got my copy for, like, $5.99 at some truck stop maybe 6-7 years ago, so...god only knows where you can find it.

And while we're at it, where's Goldberg?

Allow me to go against the grain here... I know the Vee-Jay material is "the best". I know. Archetypical. But... I have a thing on Paula (Paula PCD-8) that's a collection of the unedited performances that originally came out in highly edited form on ABC-Bluesway. You cna hear why ABC edited these things so much, because Reed is quite often...loaded like a mofo, and maybe/probably the band is too. But that's ok, because when this motherfucker comes in some uncountable portion of a bar late and howls, yeah that's right, HOWLS, "Turn me AWN like a TV and cut me off like a radee...o", I want it to last as long as a possible, no matter what commercial protocols & niceites of the time get overturned. And "Tribute To A Friend", well, hey.... Ain't nothing like that on Vee-Jay. Excuse me. I been clipping my toenails and getting buck-barefeeted & listen at him play these blues.

It's amazing to me how quickly the new music gelled once all the "established jazz musicians" got outta the rhythm section mix (even though if Al Foster qualifies as one, he sure didn't play the music like one). In less than a year, that shit got real tight. Has anybody bothered to break down the component rhythmic parts of "Mtume"? Something pretty heady is going on there, & I can hear it a lot clearer on the CD than I can my old LP....

Oh, it's worth it all right. Some other MAW tunes stemming from the same time/vibe, and some really lusicous expansions/mixes of some of the original material. And if you wanna get hardcore (and I did...), there's a Japanese release of still further remixes/etc. and that one's maybe the best of the bunch, featuring as it does Roni size's epic drum 'n' bass remix of "It's Alright, I Feel It". That one's pricey and difficult to find, but...

You mean, you don't like hearing, doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom...., over and over again? There's more than enough house/dance music for which that's pretty much all there is. My daughter is into so-called "Euro Beat" & "Tech Para", and god...give me strength. Or selective total deafness... There's also more than enough where that is but one part of the overall fabric, and what else is in there is pretty darn interesting, creative, detailed, and in no way predictable. The thing I've found is that to really, really hear this stuff, you either gotta dance to it or listen to it. Unlike so much jazz (espoecially the "comfortable" stuff), you can't (I can't, anyway), have it on and just sorta listen to it, or have it on in the background. The detail is much too subtle to come out through casual listening. If you don't/won't/can't engage it fairly fully, it'll quite often end up sounding all the same, because at that casual a level of listening, what is most likely heard will sound all the same. I've heard cuts that at first just sound like the boom boom boom boom with some little something else going on, and then I put the headphones on, check out the details, and it's like WHOA!!! It's not at all uncommon to hear stuff with 3,4, even 5 different hi-hat patterns going on simultaneously, 2-3 different snare drum sounds. all sorts of percussion things, 2-3 different keyboard patterns, all this rhythmic & textural & sonic diversity pushing & pulling & throbbing against itself, and hey - suddenly the 4 on the floor bass drum is the last thing I hear! And it's the same thing when I dance to it (unlike Shrdlu, I have neither the inclination nor the opportunity to be a "public" dancer, so I do mine either in private, or in my subliminal body), all those details just come out, the physical/mental engatgement in the music creates an entirely different receptive perspective than does the objective "listening". this music demands involvement! Besides, anybody who wonders where all the great female soul singers have gone, the REAL Soul singers, not the "divas" who get by and over on sheer 'tude masquerading as musiciality, needs to check out the house. Jocelyn Brown all by herself would be enough, but she's not by herself!!! Thing is, there seems to be just so damn much of this stuff, and the quality really does range from sublime to godawfully horrendous. And I have no idea who's heard what, so whenever somebody says they've "heard it", well, who knows what, and who knows if they've really heard it or just think they have? Not that I really care that much any more, because I know what I've heard, and variously voiced suspicions over the last year or so to the contrary, I have in no way lost either my mind or my musical discernment. In fact, it's precisely because of my musical discernment that it really bugs me to hear blanket, simplistic condemnations of an entire genre of music when I know that those condemnations are neither fair nor accurate in regard to quite a bit of the music under attack, even if for all I know, they may be a 1000% accurate assessment of the specific items which have been heard. And yeah, I've been to trendy clubs where the sound is painfully loud and the substance coming out of the sound even more painfully empty. But....that's not all there is to this music. It's just not.

And getting a $120 speeding ticket on the way home.

Indeed, and it is superb.

thats kinda the way i took it. not necessarily just length. i mean its easily the wankiest trane album ive heard. what with some of the tracks starting out with just like 10 min of just bass. i mean you get to almost the 15 min mark with some of the tracks before you hear trane come in. and i can totally see why a record company would speak out against that sorta thing Have you heard the 2nd Vanguard album, the one mentioned above? The version of MFT starts off w/solo bass, just not 10 minutes of it. In a lot of ways, that album - only two tunes, but both highly familiar ones - runs like a highly condensed version of the music heard on the Japan side. I don't think that Trane himself would have had any real problems curtailing the length of performances or tailoring the selection of materialfor an "official" live recording. He was a very astute businessman who was fully aware of how much music could fit on a record, and he was concerned with presenting a viable product as well as superb music.

Recorded May 28, 1966 by RVG, produced by Bob Thiele Yeah, by "subsequent" & "released", I meant to that one. "Post-1965" was a reference to the band, not the recordings. Probably didn't make that as clear as I should have.

The $100/night would need to be supplemented by other merchandise sales, either in the club or online. Yeah, it would be a bitch, but frankly, I think we got too many people playing "professionally" now as it is. Just because you can doesn't mean you should... All I'm saying is that if the net result of all this is to thin the herd, to reduce the ill-effects of "expansion" (just like in sports, the overall bar drops when the talent pool gets too big...), then hey. Hey.

The "play down" reference could well be to the length of the performances, not the content. That would make sense, because I don't hear too much other "playing down" in the 2nd Vanguard album, the only post-1965 one that was "officially" recorded/released in Trane's lifetime. Which also calls the accuracy of the citation into question, because AFAIK, none of the subsequent officially released post-1965 live recordings were recorded by Impulse! Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm going by memory here...

Harols, I think what we'll see (and are seeing), is the decline/fall of bars/restaurants/clubs as the primary source for local live performances, to be replaced by indepenent "venues" (which may or may not function as "clubs") which bands themselves rent for a night, week, whatever. In a sense, it's a succumbing to the odious "pay to play" concept, but on the other hand, if all concerned are shrewd, it can turn into a win-win. One thing's for sure - musicians can no longer assume that there will be places to play, places that need to have a band in there, nor that people are going to be looking for live music when they go out. So what we gotta do is hustle more to create gigs, and then hustle some more to create an interest. A simple background/cocktail trio w/lounge vocalist on weekends is no longer going to be enough to get it done. Nobody (well, hardly anybody, there's always a niche...) really cares anymore, and when nobody cares, there ain't gonna be no money... This is gonna affect jazz too. Just getting up there all non-plussed and just "playing tunes"...who cares at this point? Look at the numbers...Cats gotta get more presentation conscious and material consicous. Even with that, it's gonna be an uphill climb, but without that...

If jazz has to go back to playing for dances, there's gonna be a whole lot of displaced motherfuckers! Academia, your next generation awaits!

Not a fan of that stuff at all, and last I had heard "house music", that's what it was (apparenetly there's a difference between that and "techno", and I can hear it, but it's not a big enough difference for me to really care, it's about six of one, 1/2 dozen of the otehr afaic...). But that was then, this is now, and a lot has happened in the interim. I will confess though - a little bit of the better (i.e. - nuanced) of that older-style stuff can sit well with me for a very short time - if/when I'm in the mood. But I'd fersure not get enthusiastic about it, especially in a jazz forum...

http://www.cardinalshistory.com/lore_dizzy_dean.htm

Yep. Walton is somebody I always look forward to hearing, precisely because he is such a "character". If this sort of thing is a bother, then I suspect that most y'all must be too young to remember Dizzy Dean,,,

Well ok, that right there tells me that we're talking at least partially about different types of dance music. I know the type stuff that image conjures, and it's not for me, not at all. The stuff I've been getting into either doesn't have that heavy four-on-the-floor (broken beat is called that precisely because it doesn't have that - it's "beat" is "broken") or else has it, but not as the dominant factor. Actually the steady four doesn't bother me if it's programmed as a cushion instead of a weapon (i've heard tracks where the damn thing sounds like a big soft sexy pillow trying to seduce you into falling into it, & I gotta tell you, there's a lot of times when I don't try hard to resist...but then there's the sledgehammer of submission pounding thuddy 4, with no air in the sound, no cushion to fall into, it basically just beats you into submission...hate that, and there's plenty of that too) and/or if it's used to serve as a rhythmic axis around which lots of other rhythmic things can pivot. there's plenty of that out there. Of course, this is dance music, so there will be a pulse, a beat, that makes/ecourages it to be danceable by large groups of people. Other than as "commentary" it doesn't really make sense to make unsocial social music, does it? But on top of that, there is literally no limit on waht can be put, and it's here that the personal expression/creativity has really been coming out. You can put layer on top of layer, contrast them/pull them together, push/pull any way you see/hear fit, and ther really is no limit as to what can be used, including serious improvisation. It's still evolving, this music is, and I hope that it stays "underground", since right now, there is an audience for it that appears both appreciative and understanding of what is being done in at least general terms. Not all musics, especially popular ones, have that. Anyways, there's something vaguely humorous and ironic about paranoia about a steady 4 bass drum emanating from a bunch of jazzheads like us, when the drummers in our music, including the great ones, did just that for more years than we care to think.

A cheaper, less ethical alternative: http://www.discogs.com/release/410618

I once heard Bob LAnier doing the NBA finals on radio (early 90s, I think), and was...memerized. It was like hanging out a bar watching a game with an ex-player, and in the very best sense.