Guy Berger

kh1958, you rock! It'll take me some time to digest what you've written but I know I'll be smarter after I read it. Guy

Ptah the El Daoud is really good. It features both Joe Henderson and Pharoah Sanders in the front line, and is much more "inside" than Coltrane's late work (though not without "outside" moments). I haven't really "gotten" Journey in Satchidananda (it's nice and all), but apparently I'm a minority on that one. Since you like world music, you might like this one more than I do. I haven't heard any of her other work as a leader. Guy

The consensus is that John Coltrane took his "great leap forward" in 1957, when he kicked heroin, joined Monk's quartet, and began recording under his own name. His playing with Miles and others in 1955-56, though enjoyable, was often erratic and not at the same level as after his breakthrough. Let's say that Trane had not evolved beyond his 1956 playing. How would he be remembered -- "just another" 50s hard bop tenor? Guy

More research on wikipedia: So if I understand this correctly, unlike a regular option (that allows you to purchase a stock and then sell it), this is an option which allows you to purchase a stock, prohibits you from selling that stock, and then compensates you for the difference between the strike price and the market price. What are the advantages/disadvantages? (It seems to me that it grants the recipient privileges since they can effectively profit from the stock twice.) Why don't backdated options qualify for these? Guy

This is the interesting point. Backdating is not illegal per se. But failure to disclose (and account) is and that is what all these companies are getting nailed on. Yup. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in backdating -- all you're doing is forking over more dough to the options recipient(s). Whether that's right or wrong is for the shareholders to decide. But lying to the shareholders... Guy

I wasn't even taking their salaries into consideration. I'm just saying they're both still good, serviceable players. I expect them to play and contribute in Indiana, and as long as they remain in the league and don't spend the majority of their time on someone's bench, I'll continue to see them as good players. I don't think it's possible to evaluate these guys without taking their salaries into consideration. I agree that for the veteran's minimum, or maybe even for $2M/year apiece, these guys are not a bad value. Neither of them completely sucks and both are capable of contributing something at the pro level. But for $8M apiece, you could hire three or four different players who play at the same level. (Heck, Matt Barnes has been as good as Dunleavy at 10% of the price. For a Tayshaun Prince price, I expect Tayshaun Prince production.) Forwards with average shooting skills, no inside game and unremarkable (or worse) defense are quite replaceable in this league. Guy

While I agree that it would be wrong to buy the Mingus and Parker/Gillespie Uptown clones, I don't really see the problem with purchasing the Massey Hall or Horace. It's been over 50 years for both.' Why differentiate the Mingus and Parker/Gillespie CDs? I think I know why - Chuck's here and considered a friend. But they're well beyond the 50 year EU term, so if that's the only criteria, buy 'em. I can see if people say, "I won't buy the Mingus and Parker/Gillespie CDs because I want Chuck Nessa's label to succeed." But if you think the 50 year rule is fine for Horace Silver and the Quintet, then it's fine for these as well. Why not screw Chuck's label out of some return on investment too? As never pointed out, I started this thread not to have yet another one of these never-ending discussions, but now you started it, let me say something, too... I don't agree about Silver or The Quintet - as long as there's a legit product around, I'll buy that one. In the end, if BN wouldn't release the Silver, Definitive couldn't rip it... It's in all our interest that the actual owning company does release their stuff. But the Horace was released decades ago -- even if EMI took it off the market NOW, that bird has flown. At this point, I'm indifferent to who owns the material and only care about the value of the product. It comes down to value, for me. If another company offers a better combination of quality and price, and it's been 50 years, I'm all for it. Guy

I disagree about them being good players. You know more about basketball than Larry Bird, do you? It's not clear why Bird did the trade. It could be that he simply wanted to get rid of Stephen Jackson and/or get his hands on Ike Diogu, in which case acquiring Murphleavy was simply a costly byproduct. Agreed -- they are making the kind of money they're making for a poor reason. Mullin overvalued their talents and gave them bloated contract extensions. Neither showed anywhere near the kind of talent that merited their salary. That may be true of Murphy, but Dunleavy is actually having a better season this year. And even with Murphy, it could be argued that he's simply been displaced by better players on offense and rebounding rather than a loss in confidence. Another guy that Mullin overpaid... fortunately he's been able to correct those mistakes via trade. Now if he could only find a taker for Adonal Foyle! Guy

That's for tax reasons. The guy is handsomely compensated through stock and executive gifts (including a $46M jet). But he might be worried about going to court... Guy

Yes, but it's telling that despite Iverson's arrival the team has been crap. Guy Oh come on, not only is Carmelo out but so is J.R. Smith (the former #2 option, #3 once everyone is able to play.) Camby also went down for a time. Hardly fair to blame the team's performance when 3/5's of your starters aren't able to play. Whoops, I didn't think of JR Smith. Guy

Yup. The guy is a crook -- he should have been canned or at least reprimanded. Guy

Yes, but it's telling that despite Iverson's arrival the team has been crap. Guy

What do you like about his offense? The best thing that can be said for it is that he shoots three pointers well by power forward standards. But he has no inside game. That's an accurate assessment. Neither of these guys completely sucks. But considering the ridiculous amount they're being paid, it's a miracle that the Warriors were able to get rid of both in one trade. Next steps for Mullin: 1) trade Stephen Jackson 2) see if you can get big man talent or an expiring contract for Pietrus Guy

Can anybody here explain what "favorable tax statutes carved out to encourage employee stock options like SARs or Stock Appreciation Right or incentive stock options" means? Guy

In case you've been following the various scandals involving corporate executives but don't exactly understand what is going on, wikipedia has a nice article on options backdating:

Anybody else notice that Denver's been suckin' since Iverson came over? Guy

The Lakers are playing very well right now. Guy

I disagree about them being good players. Guy

Guy, I would expect that in New York City and Washington, DC, a liberal newspaper would do very well. But when I lived in Pittsburgh there were two papers (the Press and the Post-Gazette) and they were both liberal. Today Pittsburgh has a conservative paper, the Tribune-Review. When I lived in Atlanta there were two papers (the Journal and Constitution and the Daily News) and they were both liberal. It just seems to me that in a country where only 27% identify themselves as liberal, the liberal newpapers in a one-paper town are not giving the readers what they want to hear. edit for typo You didn't answer my question, which was about overall circulation. The conventional wisdom is that newspapers in general are experiencing circulation declines. Are conservative newspapers bucking this trend? FWIW, what determines whether a newspaper is liberal or conservative? The editorial page? There isn't much to differentiate the news articles between the NYT and the WSJ. Guy

I don't know what kind of crack the Pacers were on, but this looks like a great deal for the Warriors! Dunleavy and Murphy gone in one fell swoop!!! Guy

Because the Parker/Gillespie CD is a new issue and the Mingus was a painstakingly assembled labour of love that some git from the hills of Andorra turned around and pirated without having to do any legwork. Exactly. Guy

While I agree that it would be wrong to buy the Mingus and Parker/Gillespie Uptown clones, I don't really see the problem with purchasing the Massey Hall or Horace. It's been over 50 years for both.' Guy

Thanks David, that was a great one. Guy

April 21, 2006:

People on this board are pretty knowledgeable and I learn a lot from reading what they post. Dig through the archives for 2006 and quote/link posts that you found particularly enlightening or interesting here. It would be a nice acknowledgment for those that have contributed. Let's avoid the politics forum so that this thread doesn't turn into a pissing match. Guy