Wes Montgomery VME Smokin at Half Note 2/15

[etherbored]

those introductions and comments are considered by wes fans every bit as essential as pee wee's intros on those art blakey sides...

-e-

[Big Al]

as the teenage neighbor girl would say: "uh, like, yeah!"

Wow, now I'm even more glad I stuck with the old comp.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

those introductions and comments are considered by wes fans every bit as essential as pee wee's intros on those art blakey sides...

-e-

but pee wee doesn't sound like Steve Allen selling soap. so much for those Wes fans, then.

"we're gonna get back to our, ah, great musical, ah, musicians here tonight..."

Edited February 19, 2005 by Man with the Golden Arm

[monkboughtlunch]

Got this in the mail.

Won't be able to give a detailed review until next week.

But did a quick survey of each track on headphones.

I'm hearing some minor tape delamination artifacts, typical of Van Gelder tape stock circa 1964-65. There are many Van Gelder recordings from this general period where the tape has not held up.

Overall the mastering is very nice.

Some tracks appear to be lower generation, as they have crowd noise before the song begins.

However, Impressions, has dubbed-in reverb and lots of wow and flutter. Sounds like a 2nd or 3rd generation copy that Creed Taylor doctored in 1968 for in inclusion on the Willow Weep for Me LP.

"Oh You Crazy Moon" sounds like a third or fourth generation copy. Lots of hiss and dynamics discordant with the other tracks.

On the plus side, the bass is a little better represented and some tracks like Willow Weep for Me and the cuts that comprised the original Smokin' LP sound better than previous issues.

More later when I have time to do some additional listening...

[monkboughtlunch]

Did some more listening. Here's my review:

1. Tracks 1-5, which comprised the original "Smokin at the Half Note" LP sound better on this release than previous releases. If you listen on headphones, you will notice some minor tape delamination artifacts--but not as bad as Kenny Burrell's Guitar Forms CD remaster.

Tracks 1-5 were all recorded by Rudy Van Gelder--the first two cuts at the Half Note, and cuts 3-5 at Van Gelder's studio.

2. The bonus cuts (tracks 6-11) were recorded during the same weeklong engagement at the Half Note. However, the pan placement of instruments in the stereo image suggest that these are not Van Gelder recordings. It seems that these cuts were never intended for commercial release. They appear to be recordings of a live FM stereo remote radio broadcast hosted by New York DJ Alan Grant at the Half Note. Grant talks over the music in places and mentions to listeners this is a live stereo remote broadcast and encourages listeners to come to the Half Note.

One assumes these bonus cuts are private recordings made by engineers of the live radio broadcast.

These bonus cuts--all in stereo--are presented here in differing states of sonic fidelity. "Willow Weep for Me" "Portrait of Jennie" and "Surrey with the Fringe" on top all sound like they were sourced from a first generation tape recorded from an audio soundboard at the Half Note, although "Surrey" has been reconstructed from an alternate source as Creed Taylor apparently edited the master in 1968 when producing the posthumous Verve LP "Willow Weep for Me."

"Oh You Crazy Moon" sounds like a 3rd or 4th generation tape copy of a soundboard recording made alongside the three tracks mentioned in the previous paragraph.

"Misty" sounds like it from a first generation soundboard source tape.

"Impressions" sounds with its quasi-compressed sound sounds like it might be a tape copy of soundboard recording or perhaps a home stereo reel-reel recording of a live FM stereo broadcast of the Alan Grant's Half Note show, called "Portraits in Jazz." The fidelity on this track is good--but as good as "Willow".

So, in conclusion, I think Van Gelder's involvement may have been limited to tracks 1-5.

And tracks 6-11 may have come from private recordings of radio airchecks--from various tape sources. This explains the drop off in quality, as tracks 6-11 were probably never intended for release--and Verve only scraped them together for an LP when Wes died.

But, this does raise an important question. If Rudy Van Gelder only recorded Wes and Wynton at the Half Note on June 24, what other songs were recorded. Since Creed Taylor had Wes and Wynton re-record tracks at Van Gelders studio, he must have been unhappy for some reason.

But it would certainly be interesting if the complete June 24 set recorded by Van Gelder at the Half Note still exists. It would be neat to hear a complete show with Van Gelder's impeccable engineering.

As it stands, we get 2 Van Gelder location Half Note recordings, 3 Van Gelder studio recordings, and 6 FM radio live remote broadcast recordings probably taped by a radio station engineer.

Given the quality of the performances, it certainly makes one hope that more exists in Verve's vault.

Whether more exisits is unclear--and Verve is notoriously tight-lipped.

All in all, I would recommend this for the improved sound quality of the original LP tracks 1-5. Keep in mind the caveat that the bonus cuts were probably never intended for commercial LP release...which explains the DJ chatter and at times less that stellar sound quality.

[mikeweil]

Christ, can Verve not get anything right? This should have been released as a 2-disc set with all versions (dubbed and undubbed) of the original tracks.

The two-disc set you ask for is the Impressions set - they won't reissue this as a VME as this series reissues only "original" LPs.

The format dictates the way the music is issued - not enough studio material for an LP or CD, not enough live material in decent sound quality for a whole LP or a double ...

I understand there must be a Wynton Kelly trio track from the live sessions that turned up on a Verve compilation or a Japanese posthumous issue - I would have seen that included on Inpressions rather than a track from the Jimmy and Wes sessions.

Mosaic should do a Wes live box set collecting all the material from various labels, Verve, VGM and the bootlegs.

[mikeweil]

I think this mess has a lot to do with the way Verve handled these recordings in the first place. They made money with Verve doing the more "commercial" stuff and were reluctant to record Wes in a pure jazz setting - much of this was available from Riverside and Pacific Jazz - and Richard Bock did not hesitate to reissue Wes with overdubs when Verve scored big with this.

They simply did not put enough care into these recordings in the first place, methinks. And it got worse with Creed Taylor's productions on A&M ...

[robviti]

Christ, can Verve not get anything right?    This should have been released as a 2-disc set with all versions (dubbed and undubbed) of the original tracks.

The two-disc set you ask for is the Impressions set...

impressions does not include the versions with overdubbed orchestra.

Edited February 20, 2005 by jazzshrink

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Anyone looking to unload their japanese mini-lp copy (POCJ-9213)?

[Brad]

It strikes me as odd that Verve would issue the LPR then this but what the hell I'm glad to get the undubbed version of the last 6 tracks. Having the dubbed versions is all right but I'm glad I now have both.

On another point, if Rudy recorded some of these tracks, I can't imagine that Creed Taylor would have someone else do it for the Alan Grant tracks. Since they apparently worked together, it would strike me as odd to have Rudy record one set and somebody another. As Rudy said on the recently released Perfect Tracks, it takes 3 days to do one of these sessions, why would you then have someone else do the same thing with the hours that you need to bring the equipment, set up and break down.

I also find the sound to be very good on the whole cd. I will be selling my older Half Note, that's for sure.

[RDK]

Christ, can Verve not get anything right?      This should have been released as a 2-disc set with all versions (dubbed and undubbed) of the original tracks.

The two-disc set you ask for is the Impressions set...

impressions does not include the versions with overdubbed orchestra.

Exactly. I have the Impressions set and I think I'll stick with that one. My point was, the only reason to re-release this is for the improved sound quality - if they did, in fact, finally locate better tapes - or to finally have all the dubbed and undubbed versions together on one disc (or a pair of discs).

You can say that the "format" disctates the release, but so far Verve has shown some incredible stupidity with some of their LPR releases. They recently released the "RRK in Copenhagen" disc, but failed to include the extra tracks from that concert that were previously included on the box set. So why not release it as a VME instead of an LPR, and take advantage of the bonus material available? The LPR should be limited to those albums that don't have bonus material (though generally I don't understand why they can't include any appropriate bonus material in either case - who wants a 25 minute CD with pertanent material purposefuly excluded?)

[monkboughtlunch]

On another point, if Rudy recorded some of these tracks, I can't imagine that Creed Taylor would have someone else do it for the Alan Grant tracks. Since they apparently worked together, it would strike me as odd to have Rudy record one set and somebody another. As Rudy said on the recently released Perfect Tracks, it takes 3 days to do one of these sessions, why would you then have someone else do the same thing with the hours that you need to bring the equipment, set up and break down.

I don't think the bonus tracks were recorded with the intent of release. I think they are from soundboard tapes made by a New York FM radio station that was contracting with the Half Note to broadcast live afternoon shows.

The radio show was called "Portraits in Jazz" hosted by Alan Grant.

Note that on the bonus tracks the piano is in the right channel and the drums are in the phantom center. Van Gelder just didn't mix like that in 1965. His mixes from that period always featured piano in the center, drums panned hard to one channel.

For these reasons, I suspect Van Gelder was only invovled with tracks 1-5.

[Big Al]

On the Impressions set, RVG is only credited with the first three tracks (same as on the VME). The last two--"No Blues" and "If You Could See Me Now"--are reported as being actual Half Note recordings.

[monkboughtlunch]

On the original LP, Van Gelder is credited as engineer.

I think he recorded the live cuts on the original LP (No Blues, If you Could see me now)

But I'm skeptical that he recorded the live bonus tracks on the new reissue. It just doesn't sound like his work.

[monkboughtlunch]

Looks like Alan Grant may have had the bonus cuts recorded himself:

http://www.cannonball-adderley.com/848.htm

There is a tradition of live azz on the radio in New York that goes bock mare than fifty years. From the big band remotes of the 30s through Symphony Sid's broadcasts from Birdland in the 40s and 50s up to today's American Jazz Radio Festival, heard over WBGO/FM, there is always some live jazz somewhere on the New York radio dial.

In the late sixties, jazz disc jockey Alan Grant did a series of live broadcasts from the legendary Half Note. The club was owned and operated by the Canterino family and was the kind of place musicians loved to play. Whoever was appearing at the club that week would do Grant's live remote an Monday night. Fortunately, he taped many of his broadcasts and saved some incredible music, including these great performances by Cannonball Adderley, from permanent exile into the ether.

[mikeweil]

impressions does not include the versions with overdubbed orchestra.

IIRC Michael Cuscuna commented on the version with overdubs that the orchestral parts almost totally obscured Wynton Kelly's piano, which was the reason he left them off the earlier two-LP Verve reissue - or was this reissue produced by somebody else? I don't have it anymore.

In any case, although I understand some here like the overdubbed versions, I would never consider buying them. This was not the way Wes played his music, and reinforces my thoughts that Creed Taylor didn't consider a "pure jazz" recording as commercial.

[bebopbob]

Is Alan Grant still around? The last I heard of him was 12-15 years ago as the host of NPR's "Four Corners Jazz From Las Vegas"

What was his background? Any pictures of him on the net?

[Brad]

Monkboughtlunch,

You raise some convincing points and you're obviously an engineer who knows Rudy well so I'll defer to you on these points. But it would be interesting if someone could ask Rudy about this.

[Brad]

Anyone looking to unload their japanese mini-lp copy (POCJ-9213)?

There's a copy on ebay right now for another 12 hours (not mine).

[Ragu]

Well after listening to the VME for a little while I would say..

The sound quality is better than Impressions, thanks to the mastering of Bob Irwin and Kip Smith, but it is not a radical improvement.

It's not a big mystery as to the tracks after the first 5 not being by Van Gelder, in that Alan Grant is all over the palce ("...and now some musical musicians...") and at one point credits the engineers (Bob Dice, Sol Hockman, and Ronnie Sims) and says that part of the cost of the broadcasts are being underwtitten by the Half Note.

Monkboughtlunch is right about the drum panning and if you prefer center or right is probably a matter of taste, I like em in the middle. Also, while impressions had Wes on the left for the Van Gelder tacks and on the right for the others, the VME palces Wes in the left for all tunes.

I don't know if the tune "Impressions" is from a lower generation source but it sounds like reverb was added to Wes' guitar sound.

While I thought Wes was recorded well by RVG, the bass and piano aren't the best to begin with so don't expect a huge improvement in the bass. I guess that's taste preferences, I've never thought RVG did well with pianos.

For a sonic trat with these same guys and Johnny Griffin try to find the DCC version of FUll HOUSE. Wally Heider did a great original recording and Steve Hoffman remastered it from the session tape, as opposed to all other issues that used the mix down tape with reverb added.

If you care about the above things should guide your choice whether to get the VME or not. Either way with that or Impressions, it's great music.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Anyone looking to unload their japanese mini-lp copy (POCJ-9213)?

There's a copy on ebay right now for another 12 hours (not mine).

Ah yes, looks like Mr. James H. Thanks Brad.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Got it!

[Brad]

Got it!

Congrats!

[brownie]

'Four on Six' on the new Verve CD issue is the same version that was originally on the Verve 'Smokin'' vinyl. It's the 6:43 version recorded at RVG studio.

The 1988 Japanese Verve CD 'Smokin' at the Half Note, vol. 2' has a different version of 'Four on Six' that goes for 9:29.

Will be keeping that one

Another great job from the Verve clowns!

[Big Al]

Another great job from the Verve clowns!

Yup! They sure know how to make things clear as mud......