The local bar is pulling some crap...

[Jim Alfredson]

So I get to my gig at the local smokey bar here in Lansing, that has been around for as long as anyone can remember. It was recently bought by a new owner who has made some good changes (better smoke-eaters, new furniture, actual windows on the front on the building) but has also instituted some rules that hurt the bands that play there. The most recent is the following:

Up on the wall was some new rules about ASCAP and BMI licensing and using the sound system and the lights. Basically the management is taking $15 per night from the band's money to pay for these things.

Ok, first and foremost I have never heard of this in my 10 years on the gig scene. The whole ASCAP and BMI thing is ridiculous in my opinion. I realize it's not a lot of money, but we're underpaid as is and it's the principle of the thing.

Secondly, the sound system has been there for decades, with the addition of two new speakers and a new mixer (totaling maybe $2k in upgrades... not bad considering it's been the same system for over a decade, maybe even two). And we don't even use the sound system because it's a piece of crap... we haul our own in. In the new rules, the management claims they know that most bands don't use the sound system, but 90% of this fee is supposedly for the lights.

Ok, the lights have been there even longer than the sound system. What is the cost for them? The occassional blown bulb every two years? They work fine, but they have not updated them, so what's the big cost?

Personally, this is really pissing me off. Have you ever heard of this??!?

[Harold_Z]

Never heard of anything like that.

I think it's tip off that the new owner is a nickle/dime scammer. Next he'll be cutting the bread on slow nights.

[brownie]

From what I always heard, it was the club's managers to take care of the ASCAP/BMI licensing/royalties fees.

The managers in this case seem to be trying to have the musicians foot the bill!

That's very cheap!

[JSngry]

That's a bunch of bullshit they're pulling. Harold's got it right - the next step is likely to be cutting the bread on slow nights.

"Civilians", PLEASE stop reading NOW.

You might want to buy a gun (or see if somebody in the band already owns one), just in case. I've seen it come to that for a few bandleaders I've worked for. Never seen shots fired (about money, anyway), but as a "point maker", yeah, it's come to that once or twice. Things bread-related get pretty funky with some people sometimes, and if they're beginning to nickle-and-dime y'all like this, I seriously doubt that this will be as far as it goes, especially if they're getting away with it w/o some serious contestation.

Of course, I don't think you're a gun-toting type, and neither am I, but I no longer think that cats who are are automatically nutjobs either.

[marcello]

You know Jim, that the club is supposed to pay ASCAP and BMI for ALL music played at the club. Even if they play records on their sound system or Juke Box.

Are they pro-rating your fee for that use?

These are cheap bastards! They are supposed to pay, not you. Let them charge extra for their drinks. It might even be stated in the copyright law.

Is Phil Kelly here?

[7/4]

"I say we blast a cap in their ass."

[Jim Alfredson]

Jim, your post reminds me of stories I've heard about Groove Holmes concealing a 44 Magnum in his organ bench!

I think I'm going to try and organize a boycott. I'm going to call all the band leaders of the groups that play there, which represent most of the Lansing music scene, and discuss it with them. It's total shit. I know that I personally will not play there again after this weekend if this is how the guy is going to run his business. I'm tired of getting taken advantage of.

I mean, we get $650 a night, which we've been getting for years (we're long overdue for a raise, since we pull people in like mad). They charge $5 cover at the door and we pack the place every night. I bet they are making at least $1000 off the door alone. Then you have the overpriced food and drinks.

[Jim Alfredson]

"I say we blast a cap in their ass."

Nice "Fear of a Black Hat" reference!

[Soul Stream]

I played at a bar last year on a weekly gig. Of course the owner didn't know sh*t about anything (as usual). One day, there's a sign on the bandstand that says all songs must be original because he doesn't want to pay BMI or ASCAP.

I told him I was a BMI writer and that no matter what I played, original or not, he'd have to pay.

I got fired.

Jim, like all musicians do...bend over and take it. That's the way it is, and you and I both know whether you draw or not, if you piss the owner off you'll be fired.

I guess I'm asking how bad you need the gig vs how bad you want to stand up for what's right.

[AllenLowe]

I would walk - you might check, if you guys are in it, with the musicians union - otherwise just walk, and let people know why -

[Soul Stream]

There is something to "nipping it in the bud" so to speak. I'd LOVE to see you walk, but life's not a movie...baby still needs shoes.

[Soul Stream]

Up on the wall was some new rules about ASCAP and BMI licensing and using the sound system and the lights. Basically the management is taking $15 per night from the band's money to pay for these things.

In the new rules, the management claims they know that most bands don't use the sound system, but 90% of this fee is supposedly for the lights.

Bring your own rack of lights. and tell him to take out $1.50 for BMI/ASCAP.

Or tell him if this is the new rule, you'd like to put out a tip jar to make up the difference.

[Free For All]

I guess I'm asking how bad you need the gig vs how bad you want to stand up for what's right.

Jim, I agree that no one needs to take bullshit like this.

But you KNOW that if you walk, the owner will get someone to play there (or NO ONE at all) for whatever small amount of bread he offers. There will always be someone willing to do it, and yes, they usually suck, but it's surprising how little bar owners/patrons seem to care or even notice.

If you don't need the gig/headache, leave. But don't think organizing a united front will change his mind at all. He won't be "enlightened".

The situation sucks and this post sounds pretty pessimistic, but that seems to be how it works. You just need to decide how big a bite of that shit sandwich you can eat. B-)

*Change* is frequently a drag, but it's inevitable. Maybe it's time to move on.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Free For All

[Free For All]

you might check, if you guys are in it, with the musicians union

I don't know how it is where you live, but my experience will the AF of M is that they have NO balls and NO influence anymore. They exist to help out orchestras and that's about it.

[SGUD missile]

Jim:

This is utter bullshit!

One cure might be to ONLY play original material ..and if a customer requests a specific ASCAP/BMI song, tell him the new manager will add $15 bucks to their tab for the Royalities ..

that way, you can have the patrons kill the M!!#$^%@$%^$T!er!

[Soul Stream]

...yes, maybe play all original free jazz from now on...maybe he'll change his mind then.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Tell them that in the latest cooperative negotiation, ASCAP was awarded the rights for the white keys (thanks to Irving Berlin) and BMI got the black keys (plus C-flat). All the remaining sounds and noises were divied up among the other rights groups. So there ain't NO music that can ever be made that isn't somebody's business.

While hanging out backstage waiting to play a rock gig, I once overheard two clubowner/promoter types say, "Well, you can get jazz groups to come in and play - they'll play for nothing!" And the problem is that they are right a lot of the time.

And to whomever makes that true: shame on you. Shame on you for selling yourself short and also for hurting others who haven't sold themselves short.

Mike

[Jim Alfredson]

Do I need the gig? Of course... I need every gig I can get these days, but that doesn't mean I'm going to take it up the ass from some newbie club owner who changes the rules.

I don't care if my band keeps their gigs there, I'm not playing there again. They can get a sub. And I'm going to make a stink about why.

[GA Russell]

Rather than refuse to play there again, I would raise my fee $100. That would take care of your extra expenses and give you the raise you deserve.

If he decides not to pay the new rate, you will never play there again, so you are back where you started except that you haven't had an argument with somebody in the business.

[scottb]

Maybe better than that, raise your fee $15!! (because that's the kind of smartass I am!)

[AfricaBrass]

Maybe better than that, raise your fee $15!! (because that's the kind of smartass I am!)

That's what I'd do.

[bertrand]

Only play tunes in the public domain until he stops this shit.

Bertrand.

[Big Wheel]

Or do the reverse out of spite: call up ASCAP and see if they'll send a representative to check out the gig. Then play just the heads of 140 different ASCAP tunes in a night, and watch the fees skyrocket!

(I dunno if the billing is actually on a per-song basis, but it would be hilarious)

[Jim Alfredson]

I like that one!

Man, we had the place jammin' tonight... packed to the rafters. They are charging $4 cover at the door and it was standing room only. I guarantee they made at least $1000 off the door tonight. And they are paying us $650 and nickle and diming us? It pisses me off the more I think about it.

I told our manager that the next time we play there we get $800. If they want to tack on the stupid $15 fee, our fee is $815. If they won't give us the raise, we'll go play one of their competitors.

I took the notice off the wall so I could type it up here for your enjoyment:

To:  All Band Members                                                         February 16, 2005

First thing I would like to say to everyone is thanks for making The Green Door the best place for live music in Lansing.  I think that with the variety and talent of musicianship that performs here, we can truly claim that this is the Lansing area's best live music venue!

I do have a couple of policy changes that are to go into effect immediately.  These policy changes have come about by the increased costs of having a live music venue, combined with the forthcoming increase in the cost of liquor, insurance, and licensing.

1.  Thanks to the licensing agencies of ASCAP, BMI, and SESCAC, I will have to charge each band that performs here a licensing fee.  The break down of the licensing fees amount to $6000 per year; $120 per week; $16.44 per day.  I am going to assess the bands a $10.00 fee for every performance.

2.  All bands will be assessed a $5.00 fee for PA and Lighting costs.  I realize that not all bands use the house PA, but you do use the lights, which are 90% of this fee.

And then it goes on about comp drinks and guests lists and bullshit like that.

All I can say to the above is, YP! Your problem, buddy. Not mine. Is it just me or is this some jive shit? It infuriates me the more I think about it.

I should also add they already raised all the drink prices by at least $1.00 when he took over in late summer. So what the hell!?

[Jim Alfredson]

But you KNOW that if you walk, the owner will get someone to play there (or NO ONE at all) for whatever small amount of bread he offers. There will always be someone willing to do it, and yes, they usually suck, but it's surprising how little bar owners/patrons seem to care or even notice.

Well, here's the thing about that: The only reason people come to this club is to hear good live music. It ain't for the ambiance, let me tell you. We had people begging us to keep playing when we were taking breaks, begging us for encores, etc. They want to dance and that's why they come. Half the place was filled with people who came just to see us. And the manager knows it.

The management also decided that I can't play music during the breaks... they play the music now. I had lots people complaining to me, "Why aren't you playing the dance music?" because I play disco/funk stuff inbetween to keep people dancing. I said, "Go complain to the manager. It's his call." We're a frickin' R&B, soul band and people came out to see us and the house jukebox was playing stupid Pat Benatar and country tunes. Makes a lot of sense.