monkboughtlunch Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 In the last couple of years Impulse has released a few RVG masterings on CD: 1. Coltrane deluxe 2. Ballads deluxe 3. A Love Supreme deluxe In each case, the CD packaging advertised "newly discovered superior tape sources." This raises the question of what tape sources Impulse was using during the 1990s era 20 bit CD transfers by Labson. Are the 90s CDs sourced from EQ'd LP production masters? What's the deal with Impulse? Are a lot of masters and session reels gone, lost, stolen or destroyed? What happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 (edited) The original session tape(s) of ALS were lost in the seventies when the labels then owners (ABC) reduced contents of the tape vault to cut costs. As I understand it, this mainly affected unissued material, including some Coltrane, but some things were unintentionally discarded, including the ALS tapes. Consequently the album then had to be derived from an inferior source (the erroneous noises on Pursuance being the most obvious flaw). The new edition uses the tape, mastered by RVG, which was sent over to EMI (the UK licensee in the sixties) for the issue on the HMV label. I'm always amused by the incongriety of the Nipper logo (the dog and the acoustic horn) with the Impulse dates. Edited February 21, 2005 by Philip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Also, in the case of Impulse, it passed through many hands as a cd reissue label. First by MCA, then GRP, which was responsible for the bulk of reissues, and then Verve, then Universal. Samll fish getting eaten by bigger fish....... The point is they have been remastered over and over again..... probably the deluxe editions from as close to the source as they can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkboughtlunch Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 What about a date like "Coltrane meets Ellington?" Was the 1995 CD reissue from the session reels or an EQ'd LP master? Have any outtakes or alternate takes from this session survived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fenohr Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Some of the tape for the delux editions came from reels that Trane had taken home after each session and never returned to Impulse. For these latest cd's, they were returned to Universal by Alice and Ravi. I think maybe Thiele had some also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMP Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Don't forget the recent RVG edition of John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman - it's a SACD hybrid, and contains both mono and stereo versions of each selection. Van Gelder makes a case for the mono versions in the notes - says they accurately depict what actually went down that day. (No mention of any over-dubs.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkboughtlunch Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 how is the mono different? isn't the mono just a fold-down of the direct to two-track stereo master? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Not likely that the mono is a fold-down of the two stereo tracks; Van Gelder most often (apparently) ran a mono tape on 7-1/2 ips for producer and/or musicians to take out of the studio, and this would be engineered separately from the stereo I believe on a different deck. I don't have the SACD, but I'm sitting here wondering why! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Enough reason for me to lay my hands on the SACD, as I intend to get me a player later this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMP Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 The Coltrane/Hartman is a "hybrid," so you don't need an SACD player - both mono and stereo versions are on both layers. Van Gelder relates that jazz musicians and producers at the time thought more in mono (and there was no mixing - the balance was created "live at the recording session. All the sessions were monitored only in mono"), and stereo was often just an after-thought; he writes that on the mono tracks "you can hear what we heard in the control room 41 years ago." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Sorry to say almost every post in this thread has errors or misconceptions. I don't have time or energy to explain them now but if I don't come back to this thread tomorrow (and you care) send me a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Sorry to say almost every post in this thread has errors or misconceptions. I don't have time or energy to explain them now but if I don't come back to this thread tomorrow (and you care) send me a PM. Damn Chuck! Don't leave us in ignorance!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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