Hardbopjazz Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 For all the musicians on this board, how many standards or jazz tunes can you play without the sheet music? When I was playing, I learnt to play abot 300 within a 6 to 8 month time frame. Before that I could play them if the sheet music was in front of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I don't know... a lot of tunes I don't know or have never played but can usually figure them out on the fly if I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I don't know if it is more difficult for a melody/harmony instrument than for me as a percussionist, but I have a good memory and have a reputation for knowing a lot of them - I concentrate more on the form and certain rhythmic clues and take the harmony as a sideaspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I dont have any memorized. I usually figure it out during the first four bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I usually figure it out during the first four bars. Impressive. I usually have to hear at least an entire chorus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 well if you already know the tune in your head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 One. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 well if you already know the tune in your head.... I dont have any memorized. Jazz Kat, isn't "knowing the tune in your head" what memorization is? Just trying to figure out what you're saying. My original point was that if it is a tune you don't know, how can you "figure it out during the first four bars", when you haven't heard the whole form yet? If it's a tune you do know, what's left to figure out? Or are you talking about remembering the tune by hearing the first four (or so)bars? I think when one develops one's ears it is possible and common to play well on unfamiliar tunes by just listening to the changes once or twice. Ever hear that recording of Bird sitting in w/Woody's band? He plays on Four Brothers (which is not your run-of-the-mill chord progression) and you can tell he's feeling out the tune, and on each subsequent chorus he nails it even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 And in response to your original query- I know quite a few tunes, and I keep a list in a little spiral notebook which I keep in my case. Once I have a new tune memorized it is added to the list. Part of my practice routine is to regularly review the tunes on my list because it often happens I'll learn a tune and then not play it again for a long time. I have to play through tunes to assure that I remember bridges, form, changes etc. Plus the book is handy to remind me of tunes (that I might have forgotten about) to call at a gig or session. This is something I have my students do to gauge their progress in the process of learning tunes- they also separate the list into categories like Ballads, Blues, Rhythm Changes, Latin etc. That way they might notice, for instance, that they know 10 blues heads but only 1 ballad, and then make an effort to even up the totals a bit. I feel this is good preparation for when they move to a new city and attempt to integrate into the local jazz community, which usually happens by attending jam sessions. Players who know tunes (w/o dragging out the fake books)often make a favorable impression right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Just trying to figure out what you're saying. My original point was that if it is a tune you don't know, how can you "figure it out during the first four bars", when you haven't heard the whole form yet? How dare you question the JazzKat! He's been playing guitar now for months and he has years of experience. After all he is 15 you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 How dare you question the JazzKat! He's been playing guitar now for months and he has years of experience. After all he is 15 you know! You're right. Sorry I blew up. B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I honestly don't know how many. Probably more of the ones I need to know to work, and less of the ones I like but never get to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 (edited) I know quite a few tunes, and I keep a list in a little spiral notebook which I keep in my case. Once I have a new tune memorized it is added to the list. Part of my practice routine is to regularly review the tunes on my list because it often happens I'll learn a tune and then not play it again for a long time. I have to play through tunes to assure that I remember bridges, form, changes etc. Plus the book is handy to remind me of tunes (that I might have forgotten about) to call at a gig or session. Remind me to bug you for a peek at your little blackbook o' tunes sometime. I'd love to see what's in there that might not be in everyone's book. Is "Black Narcissus" in there?? But maybe that doesn't quite qualify as a 'standard'. (Then again, maybe it should!! ) And if "Beatrice" wasn't in there before you met me, I'll bet it is now!! Edited March 4, 2005 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Is "Black Narcissus" in there?? But maybe that doesn't quite qualify as a 'standard'. (Then again, maybe it should!! ) And if "Beatrice" wasn't in there before you met me, I'll bet it is now!! Beatrice is currently in heavy rotation. I haven't gotten tired of it at all. Just played it last Sunday at the Fairmount with Joe's trio. Black Narcissus I don't have down yet. Still have to read that one. I'd love to see what's in there that might not be in everyone's book. Probably not much. "Feelings". "Theme from Ice Castles". "Macarena". "Hot Buttered Popcorn". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 What about "Walkin' The Dog" by McDuff?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 What about "Walkin' The Dog" by McDuff?!? The changes are too hard. B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert J Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 (edited) I know I've memorized a lot of tunes, but franky some of the time I still open a real book, or something with the changes when I am in a performance setting. It's a habit I'd like to change before I die at least. The odd thing is I barely look at the sheet music, but knowing it's there comforts me. Not sure what to make of that - lack of confidence or whatever. Another thing I've observed when I practice sort of free for all is I improv better when I have a page of any sheet music in front of me. I think it focusses me. Related story - I once played a solo gig at one of the best jazz clubs in Toronto. It was a tie-in - Canadian author was doing a book launch/reading there, his book was called Barrelhouse Kings. So I did a couple of sets before and after the reading. I was plenty nervous because I had no set tunes, just was going to play barrelhouse and the blues. There were lots of people there, TV crew, the author himself knew Otis Spann, etc. Luckily it was an awesome piano - 9 foot Yamaha. My first few tunes went by nervously and then I looked in my bag and I had only the lead sheet for Lady be Good. I put it in front of me and just stared at it and I had no problem the rest of the night improvising the sets. It was like that sheet focussed my attention. Edited March 5, 2005 by Robert J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 well if you already know the tune in your head.... I dont have any memorized. Jazz Kat, isn't "knowing the tune in your head" what memorization is? Just trying to figure out what you're saying. My original point was that if it is a tune you don't know, how can you "figure it out during the first four bars", when you haven't heard the whole form yet? If it's a tune you do know, what's left to figure out? Or are you talking about remembering the tune by hearing the first four (or so)bars? I think when one develops one's ears it is possible and common to play well on unfamiliar tunes by just listening to the changes once or twice. Ever hear that recording of Bird sitting in w/Woody's band? He plays on Four Brothers (which is not your run-of-the-mill chord progression) and you can tell he's feeling out the tune, and on each subsequent chorus he nails it even more. Allright. I dont have any memorized on my instrument. But they are in my head! Like if someone says to me play Satin Doll, I dont know if it starts on a friken A or Z, but I know it in my head! So I try to bring it out on the guitar, piano, vibes, whatever I am playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Just trying to figure out what you're saying. My original point was that if it is a tune you don't know, how can you "figure it out during the first four bars", when you haven't heard the whole form yet? How dare you question the JazzKat! He's been playing guitar now for months and he has years of experience. After all he is 15 you know! oh boy. I have about 15 years of experience. Not in guitar, but I have been playing the drums and have been listening to jazz for practicially all my life. Yeah I know, big woop, but that's longer than you right? Are you the guy who has been listening to jazz for about 4 years? Or is that someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Another thing I've observed when I practice sort of free for all is I improv better when I have a page of any sheet music in front of me. I think it focusses me. Hey, if it works for you, go for it. My feeling is that when I don't have to read a chart, I can then close my eyes while I play which eliminates the visual distraction. My goal is to be more dependent on my ears as the primary source of input, which to me promotes more interaction among the members of the group. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Kingstone Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I have the changes memorised to about 400 tunes. I don't portend to KNOW these songs but if they are called I can comp and blow. When I was doing a long commute I used to keep a homemade fake book on the seat beside me, hum the melody as I'd memorise 4 bars at a time. The Autumn two minor seven five seven one.... It helped that I was playing 2 nights a week with a leader with a huge book. The memorisation thing became an obsession for a while, I was closing in on 600 tunes but I would have to review them constantly. Now it's evened out and I review less rigorously. The best parts of the process were not needing a book on gigs and the recognition of repeated harmonic patterns between songs. I think in chunks of chords now instead of just one or two. I've also named progressions for quick recognition. For instance I call VIm7 / II7 / IIm7 / V7 a FINESSE FIVE because it appears to be going to the FIVE MAJOR. I can say to folks I play with regularly, "lets give this the LAURA ending" Gotta have a hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceW Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) First time I saw this thread..... Very glad to see the different thoughts..... Reading on vibes is the worse for jazz.... memorization frees you up.... Like the idea of knowing a whole lot of tunes, reviewing, and having a set book for your group, with a lot of alternate or interchangeable tunes to keep the book fresh..... B-) Edited March 8, 2005 by BruceW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceW Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 To answer the question I used to know about 200 tunes.... would prefer knowing about 500 to 600 so that the reading becomes unnecessary in almost all situations... B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Kingstone Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Bruce, do you learn them by numbers or chord letters? ie: IIm7 or Dm7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceW Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Bruce, do you learn them by numbers or chord letters? ie: IIm7 or Dm7 Mostly I learn them by chord, however, I usually quickly "associate" them to their number system. I understand what you are asking. Once I have played a tune a couple of times I always try to stay in the number system. B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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