Nat King Cole Bear Family box?

[tranemonk]

okay... now that I'm caught up and am in the right place....

I'm a little confused... several things...

1. I thought we were supposed to be staying away from imported boxes (excluding Mosaic European versions)... For example mucho discussion about the Proper boxes, TIM, Fresh Sound, etc... I don't know anything about this Bear Family label... Why are (apparently) these guys legit, but all the other (above mentioned labels) are not?

2. I though the 18 CD Mosiac set was the COMPLETE Capital Trio Recordings? If that is correct, then doesn't some of this repeat the Mosaic set? How much?

3. What's the sound quality of this stuff?

[ghost of miles]

Tranemonk,

1. Bear Family (out of Germany) is not a rip-off label. AFAIK they license all of their material properly (pun kinda intended, I guess). As specialty labels go, they're respected and liked as much as Mosaic... more so, by some folks.

2. There should be very little overlap between the Mosaic & the Bear Family--maybe a disc's worth, I'd wager. The trio was all but dissolved by the mid-1950s, and Mosaic included only sessions that featured the trio and had a jazz quality to them--so there is some 1955-61 material, but not much.

3. Sound quality on most Bear Family boxes has been fantastic.

[tranemonk]

shit.... thanks man....this makes my resistiance futile...

Damn..... Just what I need.... another CANT MISS boxed set...

Tranemonk,

1. Bear Family (out of Germany) is not a rip-off label. AFAIK they license all of their material properly (pun kinda intended, I guess). As specialty labels go, they're respected and liked as much as Mosaic... more so, by some folks.

2. There should be very little overlap between the Mosaic & the Bear Family--maybe a disc's worth, I'd wager. The trio was all but dissolved by the mid-1950s, and Mosaic included only sessions that featured the trio and had a jazz quality to them--so there is some 1955-61 material, but not much.

3. Sound quality on most Bear Family boxes has been fantastic.

[J.A.W.]

I love Nat- even a lot of his later recordings, but... I'd never buy this. Too much filler, too many song titles that make me go Like a lot of boxed sets, it's just too much, IMO (like some other boxed sets I've bought ). I have a few individual reissues and compilations of this stuff, as well as a Capitol 4-disc set (with booklet) that came out in 1992, and it's all good, almost no throwaway cuts. I can do without things like "When Rock and Roll Come to Trinidad", "Coo Coo Roo Coo Coo Paloma", etc., especially at ~$19 per disc.

The 1992 Nat King Cole Capitol 4CD-set was no-noised, and the sound suffers because of it.

I was recently lusting over BF's "Blowing The Fuse" R&B series, but where I saw them, they were $24 per disc. I know BF does nice work, but... Still don't own any BF's...

Bear Family's Blowing the Fuse series sounds compressed/very loud, and I don't like the sound at all - which is an exception as far as I'm concerned, I usually like their masterings. Pity, as the music is absolutely great.

[Jim R]

I'm sure there is a considerable audio quality difference between my 1992 box and that which will be found on the BF set. No argument there, even if I won't be able to compare. The thing is, my box sounds just fine to me. It may be inferior sound-wise by comparison to a more modern mastering, but it's not like I've ever listened to the '92 box and thought to myself... "hmm... this sounds like it was no-noised". So, I'm perfectly happy, and I still wouldn't go out and buy a mammoth box with a high per-disc price (and a lot of what I would consider "throwaway" tracks) for the sake of better sound. But that's just me.

The other thing that kind of deters me with regard to that "Blowing The Fuse" series is that it may be too much of a "greatest hits" collection. I mean, I know it's great material, but a lot of it is so "classic", I can already hear in my head without listening again. What would appeal to me even more is if they had included more of the obscure recordings by the same artists. But that would be a bigger set... and really expensive.

[J.A.W.]

I'm sure there is a considerable audio quality difference between my 1992 box and that which will be found on the BF set. No argument there, even if I won't be able to compare. The thing is, my box sounds just fine to me. It may be inferior sound-wise by comparison to a more modern mastering, but it's not like I've ever listened to the '92 box and thought to myself... "hmm... this sounds like it was no-noised". So, I'm perfectly happy, and I still wouldn't go out and buy a mammoth box with a high per-disc price (and a lot of what I would consider "throwaway" tracks) for the sake of better sound. But that's just me.

I didn't compare the 1992 box to a more modern mastering; many modern remasters sounds just awful, maximized/compressed and sometimes no-noised, and with aggressive highs that make your ears bleed. It's just that the box sounds "dead" to my ears, as a result of the noise reduction.

Edited March 14, 2006 by J.A.W.

[Guest Chaney]

NAT KING COLE

Stardust - The Complete Capitol Recordings 1955-1959

11-CD Box-Set (LP-size) with 208-page hardcover book

BCD 16342-KL

Nat King Cole (1919-1965) was the most popular male singer of his generation, and, along with Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley, one of the four best known male vocalists of all time. Making Cole's story all the more remarkable, he began his career not as a pop singer but as one of the greatest of all jazz pianists. Yet by the time he had made the transition from jazz to pop, he had sold more records and racked up more hit singles than anyone in the immediate post-war era, even Frank Sinatra. He was also the first Afro-American pop music superstar - and still the greatest.

Cole's baritone voice was sweet and pretty, and most of his greatest successes were with love songs. Still, he had the greatest time of any singer ever, and was equally well-versed in swinging rhythm numbers and blues. In his combination of tenderness and bluesy energy, Cole was a founding father of rhythm and blues and a major influence on the soul movement – as cited by Charles Brown, Ray Charles and many other later stars. Like Frank Sinatra, he collaborated closely with the greatest pop orchestrators of all time, particularly Gordon Jenkins, Billy May and in particular, Nelson Riddle.

This Bear Family box contains Cole's complete recordings, all done for Capitol Records, of the years 1955-1959. The 11 CDs and 298 tracks contain a combination of Cole's most famous and most obscure work. The set includes all the material for no less than 16 classic Nat King Cole albums:

• The two piano-centric albums of 1955-'56: 'The Piano Style' (with Nelson Riddle) and 'After Midnight' (with Sweets Edison, Juan Tizol, Willie and Stuff Smith) as well as the 'bonus session' for 'Penthouse Serenade.'
  
  
• The 1955 albums with Nelson Riddle, 'Night Lights' and the 'bonus session' for 'Two In Love.'
  
  
• The two classic albums with Jenkins, 'Love Is The Thing' (1956) and 'The Very Thought Of You' (1958), as well as the spiritual album with Jenkins, 'Every Time I Feel The Spirit' (1958).
  
  
• Nat's great jazz-ballad album with Billy May, 'Just One Of Those Things.'
  
  
• King Meets Count! Cole's classic meeting with the Count Basie Orchestra, 'Welcome To The Club' (1958), and another great album of swinging standards from the same year arranged by Dave Cavanaugh, 'Tell Me All About Yourself.'
  
  
• Two best-selling albums recorded for the Latin-American market of classic Latin songs sung in Spanish, 'Cole Espanol' (1958) and 'A Mis Amigos' (1959).
  
  
• Two masterpiece albums with Nelson Riddle, 'To Whom It May Concern' and his magnificent album of W. C. Handy classics, 'St. Louis Blues,' both from 1958.
  
  
• The rock-inspired material that was later collected in the 'Looking Back' compilation LP, issued here for the first time without the dreadful overdubbed rhythm sections that were added after Cole died in 1965.
  
  
• In addition to these classic albums, the box contains nearly a hundred singles, which range from major hits like Ballerina, Looking Back and Non Dimenticar to some of the rarest recordings in his career, including many selections previously only heard as singles and EPs. All selections are presented without the overdubs that were often artificially imposed in the mid-'60s.
  

The illustrated hardcover book contains the most complete discography by Russ Wapensky, Jordan Taylor, Michel Ruppli & Richard Weize ever done of Cole's Capitol recordings in this period, along with hundreds of rare photographs of recording sessions from the Capitol archive, and reproductions of hundreds of album and EP covers, rare labels and other Cole memorabilia and paraphernalia. The comprehensive liner notes are the work of Will Friedwald, that wellknown Famous Author Dude.

This is the first of two Bear Family boxes devoted to Nat King Cole, the second will cover his final five years of recording (1960-1964) and together will form the definitive statement of the last and most amazing decade of one of the greatest stars of all time.

[Steve Gray]

1. Bear Family (out of Germany) is not a rip-off label. AFAIK they license all of their material properly (pun kinda intended, I guess). As specialty labels go, they're respected and liked as much as Mosaic... more so, by some folks.

As far as their big boxes go, I am sure you are correct.

However I notice that the 'Blowing a Fuse' series finishes in 1955.

Suspicious or what?

I suspect that with this series they are just as 'guilty' as Proper, JSP etc ...

[J.A.W.]

1. Bear Family (out of Germany) is not a rip-off label. AFAIK they license all of their material properly (pun kinda intended, I guess). As specialty labels go, they're respected and liked as much as Mosaic... more so, by some folks.

As far as their big boxes go, I am sure you are correct.

However I notice that the 'Blowing a Fuse' series finishes in 1955.

Suspicious or what?

I suspect that with this series they are just as 'guilty' as Proper, JSP etc ...

The Blowing the Fuse series does not finish in 1955. More volumes will follow this year, up to and including 1960, so I'd suggest you get your facts straight before accusing them of anything.

Here's what's on their website:

A NEW GOLD STANDARD IN R&B REISSUES

Here's why Bear Family's 'Blowing The Fuse' will be the standard for R&B reissues now and forever!

YEARS! YEARS! YEARS! Many companies have issued compilations of out-of-copyright recordings (ie. records more than 50 years old). That's why you'll find that their series stop in 1953.

Bear Family's 'Blowing The Fuse' starts at the dawn of the Post-War R&B era in 1945, and will continue through until 1960! And, unlike the out-of-copyright labels that won't get to 1960 until 2011, we'll get there in 2005 because Bear Family pays the companies that own the music.

PACKAGING! PACKAGING! PACKAGING! Other labels lift photos from old books and magazines, and commission quickie liner notes that tell you little or nothing, and often get it wrong.

Bear Family's 'Blowing The Fuse' will have detailed song-by-song notes, stories behind the songs, and incredible never-before-seen photos in huge booklets ... booklets so big they won't even fit inside the standard plastic case. They'll go in specially designed DigiPacs.

COMPILATIONS! COMPILATIONS! COMPILATIONS! Most out-of-copyright labels do their compilations from chart books compiled by Joel Whitburn. Compiling from Whitburn is taking the easy way out. We hired Dave 'Daddy Cool' Booth, a guy with one of North America’s biggest R&B collections and the dee-jay experience to know how to program music. He went through his incredible collection and then he went through 'Billboard' year-by-year, and picked out more than just the hits. We selected the absolute best music, some of it never reissued on CD until now, as well as the biggest hits, and we have no more than two songs by any artist on any CD.

These are true, properly thought-out compilations in the spirit of Guy Stevens, Paul Oliver, Mike Leadbitter, and the others who compiled groundbreaking blues/R&B LPs back in the 1960s and 1970s.

SOUND! SOUND! SOUND! We used the absolute best sources from the original labels, then carefully remastered for the absolute best-ever sound.

Beware! These will cost a little more than some of the out-of-copyright reissues, but they'll be worth it.

If you're sick of R&B reissues that look and sound like a proper mess, then the best is on the way. And you won't have to wait until 2011 to get the complete story of R&B's golden years!

Edited March 19, 2006 by J.A.W.

[tatifan]

1. Bear Family (out of Germany) is not a rip-off label. AFAIK they license all of their material properly (pun kinda intended, I guess). As specialty labels go, they're respected and liked as much as Mosaic... more so, by some folks.

As far as their big boxes go, I am sure you are correct.

However I notice that the 'Blowing a Fuse' series finishes in 1955.

Suspicious or what?

I suspect that with this series they are just as 'guilty' as Proper, JSP etc ...

Bear Family would be the LAST label I would group with Proper, JSP, Definitive! You can complain about their pricing, some of their mastering decisions, but NOT their licensing, or lack thereof! Considering their ability to issue compilations from multiple labels from actual licensed source materials I think they should be commended as a model in this regard.

[J.A.W.]

1. Bear Family (out of Germany) is not a rip-off label. AFAIK they license all of their material properly (pun kinda intended, I guess). As specialty labels go, they're respected and liked as much as Mosaic... more so, by some folks.

As far as their big boxes go, I am sure you are correct.

However I notice that the 'Blowing a Fuse' series finishes in 1955.

Suspicious or what?

I suspect that with this series they are just as 'guilty' as Proper, JSP etc ...

Bear Family would be the LAST label I would group with Proper, JSP, Definitive! You can complain about their pricing, some of their mastering decisions, but NOT their licensing, or lack thereof! Considering their ability to issue compilations from multiple labels from actual licensed source materials I think they should be commended as a model in this regard.

I fully agree. I think it's outrageous to suggest otherwise as was done earlier in this thread, the facts don't lie.

[J.A.W.]

1. Bear Family (out of Germany) is not a rip-off label. AFAIK they license all of their material properly (pun kinda intended, I guess). As specialty labels go, they're respected and liked as much as Mosaic... more so, by some folks.

As far as their big boxes go, I am sure you are correct.

However I notice that the 'Blowing a Fuse' series finishes in 1955.

Suspicious or what?

I suspect that with this series they are just as 'guilty' as Proper, JSP etc ...

Bear Family would be the LAST label I would group with Proper, JSP, Definitive! You can complain about their pricing, some of their mastering decisions, but NOT their licensing, or lack thereof! Considering their ability to issue compilations from multiple labels from actual licensed source materials I think they should be commended as a model in this regard.

I fully agree. I think it's outrageous to suggest otherwise as was done earlier in this thread, the facts don't lie.

The Blowing the Fuse series has just been extended to 1960: Bear Family site ("XX R&B Classics That Rocked the Jukebox"). The best way to refute Steve Gray's remark!

[RDK]

And the best thing about it is that with every Bear Family box comes a pill that cures cancer.

[Tjazz]

$190

Overstock w/coupon

[tatifan]

$190

Overstock w/coupon

This offer has the usual disclaimer for orders "comprised solely of media", so you'd better order a bicycle to get around, since you won't be able to afford gas for a month.

[Guest]

Anybody here get this yet? Curious to hear what you think.

[Alec]

Thanks to tjazz I ordered mine through Overstock.com (total $192.53 with shipping).

It's not due to be released until tomorrow. I hope they ship quickly!

[Guest Chaney]

Anybody here get this yet? Curious to hear what you think.

You might want to check out this thread over on the Hoffman board...

(Note that deus is posting @ post #109.)

Edited April 26, 2006 by Chaney

[ghost of miles]

Man, M.L. Kaufman's review on that thread got me even more eager (if such a thing is possible) to hear this set. Talked to my record-store owner buddy this a.m. (Landlocked Records--south/central Org. posters, check 'im out esp. if you like jazz vinyl) and put in my order.

Might've posted this earlier, but a friend tells me BF is definitely doing a followup box that will cover the early 1960s.

[Guest]

Man, M.L. Kaufman's review on that thread got me even more eager (if such a thing is possible) to hear this set. Talked to my record-store owner buddy this a.m. (Landlocked Records--south/central Org. posters, check 'im out esp. if you like jazz vinyl) and put in my order.

Might've posted this earlier, but a friend tells me BF is definitely doing a followup box that will cover the early 1960s.

Oh yeah, the 60's box is definitely happening. Right now looking at a fall release, but you know how that goes...

[ghost of miles]

I don't think my poor, suffering budget can take an autumn '06 release for the 1960-64 box.

Have finally been delving into this at length over the past two days, and the sound is wonderful--as is the music, which for many will go without saying. I'm not normally that crazy about Gordon Jenkins as an arranger, but it's hard to imagine anyone else doing the LOVE IS THE THING material with Nat as effectively as he did. Not too keen on the "gospel" album, but man, what a set! My only other criticism is the thematic nature of Will Friedwald's accompanying book. It doesn't really follow the sessions sequentially, and so consequently you're jumping back and forth, trying to find the sections that accompany the music to which you're listening (might've been helpful if they had simply put, under the sections w/titles like "The Gordon Jenkins albums," a subtitle indicating "Disc 5 #1-12, disc 7 #10-24," or something similar). Relatively small quibble, though. If you're a Cole fan of any passion, you should definitely save your pennies for this box. A lot of obscure tracks here that I've never heard before, and some of them pretty good, too. (Johnny Green's "Song of Raintree County" for starters.)

[jtaylor]

I don't think my poor, suffering budget can take an autumn '06 release for the 1960-64 box.

Have finally been delving into this at length over the past two days, and the sound is wonderful--as is the music, which for many will go without saying. I'm not normally that crazy about Gordon Jenkins as an arranger, but it's hard to imagine anyone else doing the LOVE IS THE THING material with Nat as effectively as he did. Not too keen on the "gospel" album, but man, what a set! My only other criticism is the thematic nature of Will Friedwald's accompanying book. It doesn't really follow the sessions sequentially, and so consequently you're jumping back and forth, trying to find the sections that accompany the music to which you're listening (might've been helpful if they had simply put, under the sections w/titles like "The Gordon Jenkins albums," a subtitle indicating "Disc 5 #1-12, disc 7 #10-24," or something similar). Relatively small quibble, though. If you're a Cole fan of any passion, you should definitely save your pennies for this box. A lot of obscure tracks here that I've never heard before, and some of them pretty good, too. (Johnny Green's "Song of Raintree County" for starters.)

No release date has yet been set, but Bear Family is now advertising the 60's box over on the website (with a picture of the cover).

Your quibble about the essay is right on. In fact, I know Friedwald suggested they provide a list like the one you mention, but for whatever reason they chose not to include that.

I am a little surprised they've elected to release this box so soon after the first. It is, as you say, a lot to digest, and so it might have been a bit more prudent to wait a while. Either way, I am glad to see this material finally released as Nat's 60s work has been rather critically dismissed when compared to his trio work or his collaborations with Riddle in the 50s. Lots of gems here as well as quite a bit of interview material (in the essay) with Cole's most frequent 60s collaborator, Ralph Carmichael.

Jordan

[ghost of miles]

Jordan,

Friedwald alludes at one point in the 1955-59 book to the vast amount of material from the 1950-54 period that has never been reissued. Any chance, you think, that BF will eventually undertake a box covering those years?

Thanks much for the update on the 1960-64... I'll be getting that one as well when it comes out.

Edited August 17, 2006 by ghost of miles

[ghost of miles]

1960-64:

[jtaylor]

Jordan,

Friedwald alludes at one point in the 1955-59 book to the vast amount of material from the 1950-54 period that has never been reissued. Any chance, you think, that BF will eventually undertake a box covering those years?

Thanks much for the update on the 1960-64... I'll be getting that one as well when it comes out.

I was just going over the 50-54 material the other day to see what was what. While there does seem to be less in the way of completely unreleased material than I initially thought, there is a fair amount that has yet to be released on CD. Many tracks have not been released since their initial 45 release while others show up only on cheap European discs.

Can't say at this point if BF will want to do another Cole project. I would hope so as they would surely package the material better (and with better sound) than would Capitol, IMO.

Jordan