JSngry Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Ok, so I'm listening (again...) to the ONE MORE tribute to Thad Jones album, and it suddenly dawns on me how freakin' old everybody on it is. So I did the math to find the average age of the players, and here's how it breaks down: Jimmy Owens - 60 Benny Golson - 75 Frank Wess - 82 James Moody - 79(*) Bob Brookmeyer - 74 Hank Jones - 85.5 Richard Davis - 74(*) Mickey Roker - 71.5 Ages were calculated elative to recording date (3/8-9/2004), and the people maked with an * had their ages rounded up due to being about a month or less away from their next birthday. The average age of the participants on this album is 75. Now, I'm sure you can get a higher average age on some smaller group sides, but this is an octet, and that's a pretty old average age, I think, especially since Baby Owens is 11.5 years younger than the next oldest player on the date! Used to be a time when a jazz musician who even made it to 70 was more often than not a beaten soul at worst, a relic of the distant past at best. But these guys are still going at it quite splendidly. A bit more mellowly than in days past, but the chops and imagination are still fully functional. The three tenorists in particular sound freakin' GREAT! And Richard Davis continues to dance gracefully and grooviliciously. For the math/trivia/etc buffs out there, I ask - what, if any, records of a group of this approximate sixe have a higher average age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 You make me feel so young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Hey, I'm about a third of the way through the last year of my first half-century, so I find this highly encouraging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Whoa, you guys must be old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 I used to have a Punch Miller record on which one of the cats--Chinee Foster if I remember correctly--was over 90. Don't know what the average was, though. Some of those Preservation Hall dates featured advanced players, chronologically--especially if you discounted the young white guy-enthusiast who played tuba. Of course I'm not sure whether they really count as jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Didn't the MJQ do an album "One for Connie" or something like that? Aside from Roker, I would think that would qualify as close to that average age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 I used to have a Punch Miller record on which one of the cats--Chinee Foster if I remember correctly--was over 90. Don't know what the average was, though. Some of those Preservation Hall dates featured advanced players, chronologically--especially if you discounted the young white guy-enthusiast who played tuba. Of course I'm not sure whether they really count as jazz. How can you not be sure that the New Orleans band count as jazz? What they play was jazz long before most of what you listen to today was even thought of. If anything, the question might be, what subsequent music was/is jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 I used to have a Punch Miller record on which one of the cats--Chinee Foster if I remember correctly--was over 90. Don't know what the average was, though. Some of those Preservation Hall dates featured advanced players, chronologically--especially if you discounted the young white guy-enthusiast who played tuba. Of course I'm not sure whether they really count as jazz. How can you not be sure that the New Orleans band count as jazz? What they play was jazz long before most of what you listen to today was even thought of. Exactly my point. BM, what made you think that it might not be jazz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 I used to have a Punch Miller record on which one of the cats--Chinee Foster if I remember correctly--was over 90. Don't know what the average was, though. Some of those Preservation Hall dates featured advanced players, chronologically--especially if you discounted the young white guy-enthusiast who played tuba. Of course I'm not sure whether they really count as jazz. How can you not be sure that the New Orleans band count as jazz? What they play was jazz long before most of what you listen to today was even thought of. If anything, the question might be, what subsequent music was/is jazz. I learned about jazz listening to New Orleans Jazz--King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band, Hot Fives, Johnny Dodds, Kid Ory--that sort of thing. I also listened to what was being recorded at the time--some of the "Living Legends" stuff on Riverside, Paul Barbarin on Jazztone. What I didn't listen to was the more commercial "dixieland" type of music that was peddled by groups like the Firehouse Five and The Dukes of Dixieland. I understood that this was a commercial variant of true jazz, and that the only people who liked it were clueless middle-aged white guys. I went to Preservation Hall in 1977 and it was my worst encounter with live music. And talk about commercial: The experience was based on the notion that tourists should be hustled as quickly and efficiently as possible, and then dismissed to make room for the next pack of drunken sheep. I suppose Percy Humphrey was playing well for an old man back then, but when I talked to Danny Barker on the phone the next day he told me, in essence, to stay away from Preservation Hall if I wanted to hear real jazz. I think that was good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Some of the same guys appeared on Lionel Hampton and the Golden Men of Jazz rec. June 11-13, 1991 when the ages were: Clark Terry (12/14/20) - 70 Sweets Edison (10/10/15) - 75 James Moody (3/26/25) - 66 Buddy Tate (2/22/13) - 78 Al Grey (6/6/25) - 66 Lionel Hampton (4/20/08) - 83 Hank Jones (7/31/18) - 72 Milt Hinton (6/23/10) 81 * Grady Tate (1/14/32) 59 (!) OK - average = 650/9 = 72.2 and this was nearly 15 years ago. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 I agree with your observations regarding Preservation Hall. It was (is?) a plantation run by the tuba player, Jaffe. When I was in New Orleans producing the Legends series for Riverside, there was no Preservation Hall. Jaffe (who died several years ago) once told me that he was inspired to start PH when he heard those recordings. I liked the idea, but it did not take long to find out that he was exploiting the musicians. He paid them very little and some did not at all share in the merchandising that bore their name. I don't know it the place is still running, but, if so, I hope it is run with more consideration for the artists and the music. I never cared for the Dukes of Dixieland, but I thought the Firehouse Five Plus Two was a good little band, and its leader, Ward Kimball was truly dedicated to the music of Oliver, Morton, and Louis. I guess you know that the band comprised Walt Disney animators, who played the music for love rather than profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 I got a winner here! Statesmen of Jazz, rec. 12/20/94 Benny Waters (1/23/02) - 91 Clark Terry (12/14/20) - 74 Joe Wilder (2/22/22) - 72 Al Grey (6/6/25) - 69 Buddy Tate (2/22/13) - 81 Jane Jarvis (11/?/15) - 79 Claude Williams (2/22/08) - 86 Milt Hinton (6/23/10) - 83 Panama Francis (12/21/18) - 76 * Average = 711/9 = 79 I find it remarkable that three of these guys share the same birthday. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 How about this one (I have a recording date of 4/1/05): Charlie Parker - 85 - sax Buddy Bolden - 107 - castanets Wynton Marsalis: 43 - trumpet, Stephen Foster - 160 - piano Stanley Crouch (drums, vocals) - 57 nice quartet recording, produced by Phil Schapp - should be out any day - recorded live during the recent Stephen Foster fest on WKCR - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Allen, I know that Bird lives but I was under the impression that Wynton Marsalis died several years ago... You sure he is still alive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 How about this one (I have a recording date of 4/1/05): Charlie Parker - 85 - sax Buddy Bolden - 107 - castanets Wynton Marsalis: 43 - trumpet, Stephen Foster - 160 - piano Stanley Crouch (drums, vocals) - 57 nice quartet recording, produced by Phil Schapp - should be out any day - recorded live during the recent Stephen Foster fest on WKCR - Wait a second--if Buddy Bolden really had played castanets in this session, wouldn't Wynton have, also??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe M Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Benny Carter's Songbook session, with Benny, Joe Williams, Peggy Lee, Jon Hendricks, etc might be up there, but there's some younger people on that one too. Ellington's later big band sessions had to be up there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 This won't quite make the averages above, I think. And I don't feel like really doing the math. But what about the last Heath Brothers album? According to AMG, that's probably Jazz Family (1998, Concord) Percy Heath Jimmy Heath Tootie Heath Jeb Patton Joe Wilder Tony Purrone Earl Gardner Tom Williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I got a winner here! Statesmen of Jazz, rec. 12/20/94 Benny Waters (1/23/02) - 91 Clark Terry (12/14/20) - 74 Joe Wilder (2/22/22) - 72 Al Grey (6/6/25) - 69 Buddy Tate (2/22/13) - 81 Jane Jarvis (11/?/15) - 79 Claude Williams (2/22/08) - 86 Milt Hinton (6/23/10) - 83 Panama Francis (12/21/18) - 76 * Average = 711/9 = 79 I find it remarkable that three of these guys share the same birthday. Mike This is the one to beat, I'd think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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