Free For All Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I thought this thread was about what happens to men as we enter or exit the swimming pool. Calling George Castanza!!! ← a.k.a. "hamster sack" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rat Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I went back into Boarders and asked the clerk why has the jazz and classical sections have deminished so much. He told me the Boarder's headquarters had them cut it back, since no one real is buy jazz and classical music. That sucks to hear that it's a money issue with the corporate office. Yeah I know, it's just business, but will this pour over to their internet site? Will they cut back even there? Sure there are many other web site I can go to buy my jazz. Just hope it doesn't become pandemic across other sources where we get our music. ← Retail is a tough business, and they and their stockholders are looking at overhead and how much money their clearing per square foot of retail space, so scaling back on jazz and classical has actually been a longer time coming than I expected. The costs of offering an obscure title on the Internet are different. They've essentially got to be able to sell a unit box at a cost high enough to cover the costs of warehousing and throwing the thing up plus overhead of maintaining the database. All in all the overhead per item online is a lot lower, and the potential market is pretty big, so the same factors pushing toward smaller stock aren't really at work. --eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vibes Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I went back into Boarders and asked the clerk why has the jazz and classical sections have deminished so much. He told me the Boarder's headquarters had them cut it back, since no one real is buy jazz and classical music. That sucks to hear that it's a money issue with the corporate office. Yeah I know, it's just business, but will this pour over to their internet site? Will they cut back even there? Sure there are many other web site I can go to buy my jazz. Just hope it doesn't become pandemic across other sources where we get our music. ← Retail is a tough business, and they and their stockholders are looking at overhead and how much money their clearing per square foot of retail space, so scaling back on jazz and classical has actually been a longer time coming than I expected. The costs of offering an obscure title on the Internet are different. They've essentially got to be able to sell a unit box at a cost high enough to cover the costs of warehousing and throwing the thing up plus overhead of maintaining the database. All in all the overhead per item online is a lot lower, and the potential market is pretty big, so the same factors pushing toward smaller stock aren't really at work. --eric ← One additional consideration with large retailers selling more obscure or deep catalog titles on their websites is that they often don't carry the inventory at all. Once a customer orders a title from the website, an order is generated and sent to the distributor. This makes keeping a large selection of titles available much less painful than it would otherwise be. Some websites are doing this for other types of product as well. I think it works out well both for retailers and consumers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 The act of physically browsing through cds in a store is becoming moot. I miss it, but I get more info on the net on a product than talking to a guy at the record store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 The local Borders' stores that I frequent have cut back but they also get the new reissues from the big record stores so at least it's not that bad. I don't think you can necessarily blame the accountants or the retailers. It's a function of what the public, by and large, wants and they generally don't want jazz so retailers will cater to the jazz public but it's not a large public and they'll allot space to things that sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Awww... why did we change the title? The old one was much better. Booooo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 (edited) Clearly, there are factors that support the internet model for retail sales of jazz records. Thank heaven. The bigger question, IMO, is how reduced inventory at brick and mortar stores may effect overall jazz sales for the major labels. The reduced amount of stock for browsing can only hurt the development of new fans (for instance, liking the Miles Blackhawk recordings but not finding any Wynton Kelly trio releases or only one Hank Mobley CD). I know that when I discovered the music in the late 80s, making connections from one reissue to others was critical, and it was all predicated on stores with large jazz stock. What is likely to happen in my opinion is a self-fulfilling prophecy: Only Miles, Coltrane, Ella, Louis, Getz and assorted compilations sell, and before you know it, the limited space available consists of Miles, Coltrane, Ella, Louis, Getz, and the biggest selling compilation of all-time, Jazz for a Rainy Day When the Boss Says "Condense the Jazz Department into 2 Linear Feet". Edited August 23, 2005 by Dan Gould Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 They closed the Virgin Megastore near my house and none of the other dumps in Burbank have good jazz sections. The worst offender is Best Buy, no jazz section at all! I have to drive all the way to Hollywood to Amoeba or Aron's or Tower for a decent selection, what a drag. I'll probably end up buying most of my music on line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rat Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I'm thinking that as various "similarities engines" and peer referral systems are perfected and as high badnwidth internet becomes more omnipresent, we'll begin to see that internet browsing can serve the same function as real-life function, and perhap be even better. --eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I got no use for bricks-and-mortar stores except for used LP places. You can get everything (even used CDs) online easier and cheaper. It's my duty as a consumer to get the best deal I can, just like it's the duty of the record business to maximize profits. It's been AGES since I've seen a real store selling a new release for less than I can get it online. So it's ridiculous to think that I'm going to spend more. The browsing thing isn't all it's cracked up to be - with online links right at the store (plus the vastness of the entire Internet just an alt-tab away) that easily beats what information is available at a store, even one with an excellent selection. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmorin Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 When I moved to DC about a half dozen years ago the various Towers and Borders had pretty nice jazz sections. They have shrunk a great deal, especially in the last few years. Sad--it's fun to peruse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vibes Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 What is likely to happen in my opinion is a self-fulfilling prophecy: Only Miles, Coltrane, Ella, Louis, Getz and assorted compilations sell, and before you know it, the limited space available consists of Miles, Coltrane, Ella, Louis, Getz, and the biggest selling compilation of all-time, Jazz for a Rainy Day When the Boss Says "Condense the Jazz Department into 2 Linear Feet". ← A good friend of mine recently became our jazz buyer, and I'm trying to keep this from happening more. When she got the job, she asked me for some feedback on our selection and the most negative feedback I gave was that we had too many compilations and smooth jazz CDs, and that this alienated the people who (likely) buy most of the jazz out there. I don't think it would be that hard to have a good mix of new releases and reissues, but we're missing the boat, especially on the reissues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 The problem is jazz doesn't sell (compared to the other things the store offers) so all the good intentions and artistic highmindedness will eventually get squelched by the higher-ups in the company. I've been there and seen it happen. While you may think it's music or art - it's just "product". If it doesn't move the "units" - why is it being kept around? The space could be better utilized. This is a commercial enterprise, not a museum. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vibes Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 That's obvious, of course. However, if you haven't tried a strategy in a while (and we haven't), it's not a bad idea to test the stuff that the real fans prefer to buy. That was my intent in giving the feedback I did to my friend. When it comes to appliances, consumer electronics and the like, gauging sales is, of course, the best way to determine whether or not a certain product should be carried. You can have a strategy for what you sell, but in the end, it comes down to the sales numbers. With entertainment, however, I don't think it makes sense to look at numbers alone, and for a long time, that's just about all we've done. That's part of the reason my friend can be the jazz buyer. You don't have to be a jazz fan (and she's not) to understand numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 The bigger question, IMO, is how reduced inventory at brick and mortar stores may effect overall jazz sales for the major labels. . ← Also, how about the shelf space being taken up by PD titles? Proper, Definitive and others may push the major labels' titles out completely. It will not be long before you see more PD Blue Note titles than legit BN titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 What is likely to happen in my opinion is a self-fulfilling prophecy: Only Miles, Coltrane, Ella, Louis, Getz and assorted compilations sell, and before you know it, the limited space available consists of Miles, Coltrane, Ella, Louis, Getz, and the biggest selling compilation of all-time, Jazz for a Rainy Day When the Boss Says "Condense the Jazz Department into 2 Linear Feet". ← A good friend of mine recently became our jazz buyer, and I'm trying to keep this from happening more. When she got the job, she asked me for some feedback on our selection and the most negative feedback I gave was that we had too many compilations and smooth jazz CDs, and that this alienated the people who (likely) buy most of the jazz out there. I don't think it would be that hard to have a good mix of new releases and reissues, but we're missing the boat, especially on the reissues. ← I don't know how long you have worked at Best Buy, but back in the early to mid 90's, they had a very good jazz selection. I saw(and bought)many a title there that I saw no where else. I guess I must have been one of the few though, cuz that section just gets smaller, and smaller(The nearest Best Buy to me has the smallest jazz section I have ever seen at a large retailer) Thing is, I stumbled across so many titles at Borders, Best Buy, Towers, Media Play even that I don't think I would ever find online. If you like creaky jazz like me, a lot of times the online listing for the cd doesn't have a scan of the cd, the label name, or how many tracks are on it! Not likely to take a chance on a cd that may just be a 10 track best of of some obscure artist.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 But just alt-tab over to a websearch and it's more than likely that you will find the details you need - if not more. I agree that the vendor's information is not always as detailed as I would like, but by combining sources (which I can't do in the shop) I can get a much more complete picture. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Remembered this thread after checking the local Borders (online inventory search) for some titles they usually have in stock. That was depressing. Yes, I also remember when they had a huge jazz selection, but I guess it’s the sign of the times: with the price of CDs being what they are, online availability (and usually cheaper, too), and the average music buyer still under the impression that Kenny G is jazz, it’s a wonder that jazz sections still exist. Still, I suppose I can’t complain too loudly. Borders has yet to set up a store in Arlington, so driving to Fort Worth or Dallas to use a 25%-off coupon becomes something of a wash. Especially when there’s a brick-n-mortar down the road that carries the titles I’m looking for at Borders prices. Still, there’s that online thing. Still, I spend too much time agonizing over a CD purchase than I should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgraham333 Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 In Chicago for a conference and noticed that the Virgin Megastore was in the process of moving it's Jazz section out of the separate side room and out on to the main part of the 2nd floor. It was nice while it lasted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgraham333 Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Remembered this thread after checking the local Borders (online inventory search) for some titles they usually have in stock. ← I found Coltrane's Complete Village Vanguard on the stock-search but they couldn't find it in the store....the first time. I went back a week later and they found it....and I had a 25% off coupon! While they were trying to track it down, I saw on their computer that they had it in the store since 1998! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Then again, I guess it depends on where you are: I’m planning on being in Orlando either this week or next. All the Borders stores around that area have the titles I was looking for. I think we’re going to eventually see the CD section pared down to nothing but “new releases” of pop, rap, & country. Only that which is guaranteed to sell. (The only holdover from the jazz section, Kenny G, will be moved to the “pop” section) Remember the hoopla over the Rolling Stones SACDs? A recent trip to Best Buy shows that they only have a few of those remaining. But plenty of those “40 Licks” comps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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