Why do Miles Davis CDs sell so well?

[montg]

Miles Davis CDs sell disproportionately well in the jazz world--all eras from Birth of the Cool through BB and beyond. The Sony/BMG/copy-blocking cartel is singularly devoted to getting his stuff out since it's easy to move. But to me, Miles' music is not especially accessible (no more than, say, a good Horace Silver or even Woody Shaw CD). And though Miles may have a hip image, jazz in general (at least from the 50s and early 60s) still maintains a cool image and so I don't see why the image/marketing of Miles would be uniquely advantageous to him. Is it Miles' greatness that the average music listener finds appealing? If so, what aspect of his 'greatness' is so marketable? just wondering.

[JSngry]

I believe it's called inertia...

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Here's some little bits from a Columbia Records memo:

"We must find every way possible to expose people to this music. GP-26 has the chart feel. It's today's music - just like Santana."

and

"How do we expose this GP? Underground and jazz stations, radio buys, underground newspaper ads, college newspaper ads, giveaway samples to key buyers and clerks to spread word of mouth exposure. We have a monster on our hands if we do all of the numbers we know to expose, promote, merchandise and SELL this potential *SMASH*. I want everyone in the region to give this GP "your best shot". I want feedback. Tell us what you are doing to chart this one. This is not a jazz album - it's Santana, Blood Sweat & Tears, etc. GET THE MESSAGE. Sell it like you sold Blood Sweat & Tears and Santana. Promote it the same. Let's cook!"

So - how many jazz artists EVER got that kind of promotion?

Mike

BTW, GP-26 is "Bitches Brew"

[king ubu]

[montg]

Speaking of promotion--i remember a Bob Dylan interview I read in the '80s in Spin magzine. Dylan said something to the effect, "if you want to know what cool is, check out Miles Davis. Now that's the definition of 'cool'". An endorsement from Dylan goes pretty far I suppose--it certainly did with me (i was otherwise unfamiliar with Davis at the time).

[A Lark Ascending]

I expect there's a whole generation of jazz enthusiasts, like myself, who first began to wonder about taking a listen to jazz when hearing the likes of Carlos Santana and John McLaughlin enthuse about Miles Davis (and Coltrane); and reading how McLaughlin used to play with him; and seeing those mysterious 'Bitches Brew' and 'Live Evil' sleeves in record shops, magazines and on those old CBS 'inner sleeves'.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Yes, "The Inner Sleeve" was an excellent marketing tool, in my opinion. But perhaps it's chicken-and-egg here - fans were more open-minded so they could do that (cross-marketing); they did the cross-marketing and fans became more open-minded.....

As for Bob Dylan, that's amusing. Here's what he said about jazz in 1966:

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I don't think jazz has ever appealed to the younger generation. Anyway, I don't really know who this younger generation is. I don't think they could get into a jazz club anyway. But jazz is hard to follow; I mean you actually have to like jazz to follow it: and my motto is, never follow anything. I don't know what the motto of the younger generation is, but I would think they'd have to follow their parents. I mean, what would some parent say to his kid if the kid came home with a glass eye, a Charlie Mingus record and a pocketful of feathers? He'd say, "Who are you following?" And the poor kid would have to stand there with water in his shoes, a bow tie on his ear and soot pouring out of his belly button and say, "Jazz, Father, I've been following jazz." And his father would probably say, "Get a broom and clean up all that soot before you go to sleep." Then the kid's mother would tell her friends, "Oh yes, our little Donald, he's part of the younger generation, you know."

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I wonder if a pan from Dylan goes as far as an endorsement from him?

Mike

[Rosco]

Damn soot gets everywhere!

[montg]

I also remember an interview with Dylan from the early 80s where he was asked what he was listening to and he responded with some praise for Billie Holiday. I didn't know who he was talking about (I figured it was some guy--what did I know, I was into greasy kid stuff). Maybe Dylan was on the Columbia PR payroll for awhile.

[montg]

Back to Miles, it's one thing to check out Kind of Blue because Santana digs it--but the power of his catalog is deep. I don't see why Budo or Bye Bye blackbird would be more appealing to a rock generation than any number of other jazz performances (performances on CDs that are lucky to sell 500 a year today).

[Matthew]

I think we also have to be careful about what part of Miles Davis' music gets promoted. The pre-Bitches Brew music is heavily promoted, and played on jazz stations in the USA, heck, in the whol world. However, does the "electric Miles" get the same push? I doubt it. In all my years listening to jazz radio, I can count on one hand the post-BB Miles that I've heard. It's all too bad the the Davis' music has been made "safe" through this selective process. And to think, Miles was accussed of pandering to the masses by turning electric, yet that is the music that get ignored compared to the pub the two "classic" quintets receive.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

It's all about name recognition. Rock fans hear ONE name and it's Miles Davis. If they hear two, it's him and Coltrane. Not even necessarily hearing their music, just hearing the name dropped: "Yeah, I listened to a lot of jazz, you know, Miles, Coltrane...." No rock star ever said: "Yeah, I listened to a lot of jazz, you know, Lunceford, Erskine Hawkins....."

As for electric Miles, Bitches Brew was indeed pushed and promoted alongside rock. At the time (1970-71), Miles was huge - featured in Rolling Stone, playing double bills with Laura Nyro, Blood Sweat & Tears, Steve Miller, Neil Young. That was the peak of his cross-marketing. Now, you're right - it's quite rare to hear that music. But the "damage" was already done. His name was established in those areas.

Mike

[A Lark Ascending]

I certainly heard long stretches of Bitches Brew on the late night 'progressive' programme on Radio Luxemburg in the early 70s (anyone remember Kid Jensen?). It actually put me off exploring jazz at the time. I was clueless as to what it was all about.

It's also worth noting that alot of Miles is very 'pretty' - it can make excellent background/ambient music. I suspect some people hear it at dinner parties and think "That's nice, I'd like a CD of that."

It's also used alot in films and TV dramas.

I heard 'Miles Ahead' being played in a shopping centre in Oslo a few years back...the whole recording! Can't imagine the shopping centre that would play 'Bitches Brew.'

Edited August 26, 2005 by Bev Stapleton

[SEK]

I don't know fully why Miles Davis recordings still sell so well. I agree that the promotion of his recordings and its attendant availability have been major factors, and the breadth of his music allows for many inviting entry points.

What I know for sure is that I have most of Miles's recordings from Parker days till about 1972, and Miles's music has found its way to my stereo a disproportionate amount of times since 1967 or 68.

The effects of any promotion and his force as a contemporary figure have, for me, faded significantly over the years, but the appeal of the music itself has not diminished.

[Guy Berger]

Can't imagine the shopping centre that would play 'Bitches Brew.'

←

That would be one cool shopping center.

Guy

[SEK]

Can't imagine the shopping centre that would play 'Bitches Brew.'

←

That would be one cool shopping center.

Guy

←

[Chuck Nessa]

Part of this "problem" is all the dickheads who buy the same recordings over and over. Look around and see if you can find one.

[scottb]

Where did you start exploring jazz? KOB?, BB?, John Coltrane leading you to the first quintet?, Herbie Hancock leading you to the second Quintet?, Easy Mo B leading you to Doo Bop?

To the general public Miles IS jazz. And you know what, they are right in my opinion. He invented a couple styles of jazz, pioneered others and mastered the rest.

He's one of the few jazz artists the public even hears about. When I first started listening to jazz, I would go to the store and just wander through the jazz section not knowing what I might like, every puchase a gamble, don't bother asking the staff (got a Herb Alpert disc once when I played a latin style bop solo for a worker once. Hello, ever hear of Dizzy or Lee? A Night In Tunisia?) My strategy became shop by label, Blue Note, Prestige mostly, why?, because that's what Miles was on.

Where would you go? Jazziz? Down Beat? I eventually found my way to the Blue Note Board after buying the RVG of Midnight Blue and haven't looked back since.

[Chuck Nessa]

Where did you start exploring jazz? KOB?, BB?, John Coltrane leading you to the first quintet?, Herbie Hancock leading you to the second Quintet?, Easy Mo B leading you to Doo Bop?

Where would you go?  Jazziz?  Down Beat?  I eventually found my way to the Blue Note Board after buying the RVG of Midnight Blue and haven't looked back since.

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I started with Ellington, Armstrong, Rollins and Gillespie in the late '50s. Then I went to Down Beat (it was very worthwhile then) and bought books. Trial and error with record purchases was my most faithful guide.

Unfortunately, "commercial" sites with bbs get much more attention than I consider "healthy". Note when the BNBB started dissing BN product, the board went away.

"What's available on the net" is a very poor guide to an education.

[marcello]

It is now, and has been for a long, long time, a practice to add a Miles Davis recording to your collection as your token jazz record.

In the late 50's it might have been a Prestige with My Funny Valentine.

A little latter it might have been Sketches Of Spain or Kind of Blue.

In the mid 60's maybe My Funny Valentine or Four and More; maybe Miles Smiles.

If you really thought you were hip and slick, in '68 it might have been Nefertiti.

A hip Hippie would buy Bitches Brew. ( Don't forget he would have heard it on underground radio. I remember hearing a different side each night. You know, they played Wednesday on Wednesdday, Thursday on etc.)

And on and on......

All of those single, one time, purchases, add up.

All of this popularity stems from his legend and press starting from the Newport "discovery" and the Columbia machine.

And oh..... Miles was a talented and riveting artist and performer who delivered.

Although I don't like any of his post retirement music at all.

Edited August 27, 2005 by marcello

[Noj]

I didn't start collecting Miles Davis until I had loads of other jazz. He's great, but not my favorite.

[Brad]

I wouldn't say he's my favorite but he was also at the forefront or involved in many significant jazz movements: bop, cool, hardbop. Helping to make Coltrane a big name. It's hard to ignore those kinds of facts. Yes, he is well know to the non jazz public and that is so because of the Columbia machine. While I don't care much of the post 65 material, the stuff with Gil Evans, the 50s material and the early 60s is very damn good. KOB is classic, etc., etc. That's why he's big.

[Guy Berger]

Where did you start exploring jazz? KOB?, BB?, John Coltrane leading you to the first quintet?, Herbie Hancock leading you to the second Quintet?, Easy Mo B leading you to Doo Bop?

80s Genesis=>70s Genesis=>Brand X, King Crimson=>Mahavishnu Orchestra=>In a Silent Way + Miles Smiles=>Out to Lunch, Unity, A Love Supreme=>jazz!

[A Lark Ascending]

'Miles Davis' is a name that is known well beyond the jazz community by people who have never consciously heard his music. Like Beethoven or Picasso.

I expect that when people unfamiliar with non-mainstream music decide they want to experiment a bit it's a name that they recognise and take a chance on.

Edited August 27, 2005 by Bev Stapleton

[Ron S]

'Miles Davis' is a name that is known well beyond the jazz community by people who have never consciously heard his music. Like Beethoven or Picasso.

I have to confess that I have never consciously heard Picasso's music.