AllenLowe Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 that everything Arturo Sandoval plays sounds like Flight of the Bumble Bee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Better skaith saved then Mendez made. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_M Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 that everything Arturo Sandoval plays sounds like Flight of the Bumble Bee? ← He is just too technical. He is a fantastic trumpet player, but doesn't seem to have much to say. However, he's worth a listen live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Every time I see my uncle (who's about to turn 80 in a couple years), he always plays me something with Sandoval -- raving about his technique. I've never gotten what's the least bit interesting about his playing (other than the technical). Don't know that I've ever heard a solo of his that really ever did much for me, even in the slightest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeCity Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I remember checking out the first Irakere record on Columbia when I was in high school. I dug Paquito, and Chucho Valdez, and I remember thinking "Wow, that trumpet guy is playing really high!". But that's about it. Did anyone see the HBO movie about Arturo, starring Andy Garcia? Made him look heroic, but the stories I've heard make him sound...um...less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 (edited) I don't think referring to a player as "too technical" is really a criticism by itself. I mean, Clifford Brown, Booker Little, Woody Shaw, Freddie, Dizzy and others could be referred to as "too technical", but the difference is that they actually seem to have something musical to say- whereas with Arturo the technique is the show, not so much the content. Arturo may very well be a better trumpet player than all of the above, but to me he seldom says much musically except "look what I can do!" and that wears thin pretty quickly. It seems his mission is to prove he's badder than all the boys, but in the end he's proving just the opposite IMHO. He does put on an entertaining live show- he plays piano and percussion very well and his command of the trumpet is stunning, but that's about all you take with you at the end of the night. Carl Fontana had amazing technical command of the trombone, but I never thought of his playing as "too technical"- I was instead focused on the musical elements of his playing- phrasing, melody, harmony. Hardly even noticed that there was some badass technique on display. OK, maybe I noticed a little bit. Then there are other 'bonists who have comparable levels of technique but are so dependent on it (as an end in itself instead of a means to an end) that they fail to sustain long-term interest. I will not mention names........ Edited October 20, 2005 by Free For All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 There's no such thing as "too much technique." (Though I understand what people are trying to say when they use this phrase.) But there is such a thing as "too little to say." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Then again, there are players who are "all technique." That says it well, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 When you're kind of a shallow, self-aggrandizing person, is it so surprising when you make shallow, self-aggrandizing music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 that everything Arturo Sandoval plays sounds like Flight of the Bumble Bee? ← Because he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 well I'm glad it ain't just me, as his playing drives me nuts - and I mean that in the BAD way - maybe THAT'S why Castro didn't like him - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 It is possible to play all the right notes and convey only the message that you played all the right notes. That's what I always get from Sandoval and most of the time from Mr. Gumbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 When you get to that level of profeciency, you kind of play who you are. I don't know Arturo's personality, but it wouldn't surprise me if his playing reflects it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 (edited) In fairness to Sandoval, he comes from a non-American (non-jazz, really) tradition of trumpet playing that places value on the whole "bravura" aspect of the instrument. You listen to cats like Chocolate (Alfredo Armenteros), El Negro Vivar, Luis "Perico" Ortiz, etc., and you can gain a better perspective of where Sandoval is coming from than you can by comparing him to American jazz trumpeters. Having said that, though, I think it's safe to say that Sandoval is to those players what is to , which is to say that he takes a nice (and already bold) concept to such extremes that its usefulness to anybody but the masochistic and/or tragically macho is doubtful at best. Edited October 20, 2005 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 (edited) I understand your point Jim, but it's instructive that I saw him on a TV show playing after Claudio Roditi (Brazilian, I think) - who is also a virtuouso but a musical one, full of beautiful ideas, great sound, a brilliant jazz player - Edited October 20, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 In fairness to Sandoval, he comes from a non-American (non-jazz, really) tradition of trumpet playing that places value on the whole "bravura" aspect of the instrument Unfortunately, I think you could say this about a lot of youngish jazz trumpeters growing up right here in the good ole USA. You have to dig kind of hard to find the jazz tradition in this country, these days, and I don't think you're necessarily going to find it at Berklee. Or on PBS. Maybe that's why the 'all technique-little to say' charge seems to extend to a lot of folks who have come on the scene in the 90s through today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I understand your point Jim, but it's instructive that I saw in on a TV show playing after Claudio Roditi (Brazilian, I think) - who is also a virtuouso but a musical one, full of beautiful ideas, great sound, a brilliant jazz player - ← True (and again, I pretty much despise Sandoval's music to a degree that I do few others), but "ethnomusicolgically", the "European" threads run much longer and deeper in Brazilian music than they do in the Carribean musical cultures, so equating the Brazillian musical traditon to the Latin/Carribean one is a bit of apples and oranges, I think. I look at Sandoval's music (and looking at it is the best I can do...) as combining a hyperactive "Latin" musical temperment with the worst aspects of jazz extroversion. The worst of both worlds, so to speak... If not for his age, it would be tempting to envision a scenario where Sandoval learned to play jazz by getting a bunch of 70s-era Hannibal solos (which I truly love, btw) and, reversing the time-honored tradition, setting the turntable at 78 rpm in order to learn them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 So Sandoval is Dave's Gourmet Ultimate Insanity as opposed to Blair's Original Death Sauce? I'm going to have to think about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Have you had the Ultimate Insanity sauce? "Gourmet" is a misnomer. "Too freakin' hot to be useful to any living creature" is more like it. One drop on the tip of a toothpick will damn near raise blisters. I kid you not. It's strictly a gimmick, or, in the wrong hands, a tool of punishment. Maybe I'm thinkng of that "Reserve" stuff he makes up, in shich case I'll gladly change the image. But that's my analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 OK, I got you now. I haven't been initiated into Dave's Gourmet yet. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Coincidentally, Sandoval has just joined the organissimo forum. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md655321 Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I onced worked with a guy whose favorites jazz trumpet players were Wynton Marsalis and Arturo Sandoval. You can just imagine the implications of that. Oh, and he wasnt too fond of Miles or Charlie Parker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I've been hearing a lot of Wynton's new live CD on XM radio--it sounds good to me and I think he has something to say...even if what he's saying is basically, "I LOVE this music and I'm going to have FUN with it tonight". I'll take that over empty virtuosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Coincidentally, Sandoval has just joined the organissimo forum. Bertrand. ← Yes, he's already out-posted Sangrey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Yes, he's already out-posted Sangrey. ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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