Recent Dave Douglas

[Alexander]

I've picked up three recent (?) Dave Douglas recordings that I'd like to recommend. The first may not actually be terribly recent, but I just found out about it. It's a live recording from Amsterdam which appears to be the first in a series of budget priced releases available only through Douglas's own label (Greenleaf Music). It's a two CD set priced at $14.99 for both CDs (even less if you download it). The recording features Rick Margitza, Uri Caine (on Fender Rhodes), James Genus and Clarence Penn. Very much of a piece with "The Infinite" and "Strange Liberation" (sort of in a late-'60s Miles mode). Very good. Also available only through Greenleaf on the web is "Keystone," which is made up of music composed to accompany certain films of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle (who has become something of a cause celebre for Douglas). Haven't listened to this one all the way through, but what I've heard is fantastic. The CD comes with a bonus DVD which features the 1919 film "Fatty and Mable Adrift" set to Douglas's music. It's quite cool watching this 86 year old film accompanied by Douglas's rock-fusion music! Douglas also has ANOTHER disc out in stores called "Mountain Music." This is a bit more unusual than the other two, and it features a rather unique line up (including cellist Peggy Lee). Quite interesting music, although it might take a few listens to really get into it.

Anyway, I just wanted to make people aware of some good music that rather off the beaten path. Anyone have any of these? Any thoughts on them?

[JSngry]

...Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle (who has become something of a cause celebre for Douglas). 

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What's the deal there?

[Alexander]

My understanding is that Douglas was commissioned to write some music to accompany Arbuckle's films, and that while watching the films and reading up on his life, Douglas became aware of the need to revive Arbuckle's reputation. It is true that all most people know about Arbuckle (if they know anything at all) is that his career was ruined when he was accused in a violent rape case. What people tend to forget is that Arbuckle was acquitted. Not only was he acquitted, but the jury felt that Arbuckle deserved a public apology from the D.A.s office. It didn't matter if he got it or not. His career was sunk by the scandal.

Douglas feels that Arbuckle belongs in the pantheon of early filmmakers along with Chaplin and Keaton, which he very well might (I haven't seen enough of his work to judge). I know that there is an effort afoot to similarly raise awareness of the work of Harold Lloyd...

[Big Wheel]

Go see the live Keystone shows if you get a chance. They dim the lights and play the films on a projector off to the side.

[Nate Dorward]

There's a 2-DVD set of Arbuckle's work with Keaton, & it is superb.

Yeah, Arbuckle was put through the wringer: there were three trials, the first two resulting in a hung jury, the last one acquitting him, with the famous apology to him for his treatment. -- At the end of his life he was on a comeback, having just been signed again to a contract, but he suddenly died. Not very old, either.

I think the last thing of Douglas's I heard was Bow River Falls, which was nice but not all that compelling, I thought. I keep meaning to check out Strange Liberation.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Nate Dorward

[jlhoots]

I've picked up three recent (?) Dave Douglas recordings that I'd like to recommend.  The first may not actually be terribly recent, but I just found out about it.  It's a live recording from Amsterdam which appears to be the first in a series of budget priced releases available only through Douglas's own label (Greenleaf Music).  It's a two CD set priced at $14.99 for both CDs (even less if you download it).  The recording features Rick Margitza, Uri Caine (on Fender Rhodes), James Genus and Clarence Penn.  Very much of a piece with "The Infinite" and "Strange Liberation" (sort of in a late-'60s Miles mode).  Very good.  Also available only through Greenleaf on the web is "Keystone," which is made up of music composed to accompany certain films of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle (who has become something of a cause celebre for Douglas).  Haven't listened to this one all the way through, but what I've heard is fantastic.  The CD comes with a bonus DVD which features the 1919 film "Fatty and Mable Adrift" set to Douglas's music.  It's quite cool watching this 86 year old film accompanied by Douglas's rock-fusion music!  Douglas also has ANOTHER disc out in stores called "Mountain Music."  This is a bit more unusual than the other two, and it features a rather unique line up (including cellist Peggy Lee).  Quite interesting music, although it might take a few listens to really get into it.

Anyway, I just wanted to make people aware of some good music that rather off the beaten path.  Anyone have any of these?  Any thoughts on them?

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Got 'em all.

Like 'em all.

That 2 CD live set is especially good (IMHO).

[sal]

How is the playing of Rick Margitza? I have never heard of him until reading this post.

[Rob C]

I like Mountain Passages quite a bit, though not nearly as much as I liked the music performed live by a somewhat different band. Tyshawn Sorey was on drums, and oh, mama, was he good. Can't remember the name of the sax player, but I was impressed by him as well....

With the caveat that I'm not generally that big a Douglas fan, I'd still put Mountain Passages at or near the top of what I've heard from him. It's pretty unique music, puts me in mind of chamber music mixed with the polyphony of early jazz like Jelly Roll Morton.

[gnhrtg]

I keep meaning to check out Strange Liberation.

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Which I think would do nothing to change your impression of Douglas. I like the album (certainly more than The Infinite, which I traded some time ago) but thought I'd let you know that Chris Potter, not your favorite, is given more than his share of the solos - not that this bugs me, I think he does at least as good a job as anyone else does. I really could have done without those composition heavy tunes, going too close to Frisell Americana, which I, know, is somehow missing the point but there's a reason why it's been a long time since I bought any Frisell albums.

And on topic, the one I'd be interested in would be the live set(s).

Edited November 21, 2005 by gnhrtg

[Nate Dorward]

Ah well, what I'd feared. Yeah, Chris Potter mostly irritates me, though when I saw his with a kinda Tim Bernish band (Wayne Krantz, Craig Taborn, no bassist, Nate Smith) it was pretty good fusionoid jazz. Potter's overheated mechanical side worked well with the grinding mathematically subdivided funk weirdness.

I hated The Infinite--got it, listened to it 3 times & traded it away the following week.

(fixed typo)

Edited November 21, 2005 by Nate Dorward

[Alexander]

Ah well, what I'd feared.  Yeah, Chris Potter mostly irritates me, though when I saw his with a kinda Tim Bernish band (Wayne Krantz, Craig Taborn, no bassist, Nate Smith) it was pretty good fusionoid jazz. Potter's overheated mechanical side worked well with the grinding mathematically subdivided funk weirdness.

I hated The Invisible--got it, listened to it 3 times & traded it away the following week.

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Do you mean "The Infinite," or are you referring to another album I don't have?

I'll be the first to say that "The Infinite" is somewhat overrated. I like it, mainly because I like the electric Miles stuff that inspired it, but I never thought it was revolutionary. I did, however, enjoy it and have enjoyed pretty much everything I've heard from Douglas. I don't spend my time looking for messiahs, so I tend not to be disappointed when I don't find them...

[Nate Dorward]

Just fixed the typo. I just found the album rather precious, not an adjective I'd apply to Miles' music.

[jazzbo]

Rick Margitza can PLAY. He's got it. I haven't heard these Douglas's but I've heard him elesewhere and he's not likely to disappoint.

[king ubu]

Margitza can play indeed!

Here's an earlier thread about him.

[jlhoots]

How is the playing of Rick Margitza?  I have never heard of him until reading this post.

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I've got 2 CDs where Margitza is the leader.

They're titled Game Of Chance & Memento.

Both have excellent rhythm sections & are well worth buying.

Edited November 21, 2005 by jlhoots

[A Lark Ascending]

Live at the Bimhuis is one of my favourite CDs of the year. I'd go as far as to say one of my favourite double live CDs. You get a real sense of listening through a full concert. And the stretched out versions of tunes from the era of 'The Infinite' are superb.

I think I've only hear Rick Margitza with Maria Schneider before. On this set he really made me sit up and take notice.

Very, very strong recommendation. I like 'Keystone' too, but it's the Bimhuis discs that really get my attention.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Bev Stapleton

[Aggie87]

bump...

I just recently picked up both the "Live at the Bimhuis" discs and "Keystone". They're both keepers for me. Keystone grabbed me quicker upon first listen, which means that the Bimhuis set will probably end up being the one I like better of the two over the long haul.

Two thumbs up!

[.:.impossible]

Semi-related... I just saw/heard about this for the first time over Christmas. Really renewed my appreciation for Dave Douglas' trumpet playing. He's a MF, for sure. Still haven't warmed to his leader dates all that much though...

Masada Live at Tonic 1999 - highly recommended!

Joey Baron asks for a break so Zorn calls an extremely uptempo, like presto, tune with plenty of drum features. He kills it. The interplay between Zorn and Douglas is fantastic though. These four really seem to enjoy playing these tunes together. I'd love to see them again!

Another vote for the Keystone project. Here's an interesting interview as well.

Dave Douglas

January 16, 2006, 04:14 PM

posted by Dave Douglas

Q & A: Dave Douglas with Petr Vidomus, Harmonie Magazine,

Czech Republic. www.muzikus.cz

January 2006.

I heard that when you studied at New England Conservatory, the Carmine Caruso method was very effective for you. Can you describe what that is, why it was effective, and what suggestions you might have for trumpeters seeking to develop their own language?

It is a pleasure to be able to talk about Carmine Caruso. He saved me. I always struggled as a trumpet player - the technique did not come naturally to me. Carmine’s method enabled me to find a natural way to make sound on the instrument and then apply it to the music I wanted to play. I still study with Laurie Frink, who was the top student of Carmine’s method and now has developed her own personal approach to teaching trumpet based on her own wisdom and experience. So, in answer to your question, I urge everyone to go take a lesson with Laurie Frink! She can be reached at: LAFRINK@aol.com. I’ve spoken with her about this, and she is OK with me giving out her email. I can’t recommend her highly enough. (Full disclosure: I do not get a commission....)

Carmine taught musicians of all instruments and styles. First of all, his idea was that the technique of playing an instrument is completely separate from style or language. His feeling was that if one could learn to play the instrument in the most natural way, with the least stress and force, with a minimum amount of fuss, that one would be able to play any kind of music. I agree with that and feel that style is the mere surface of music, divorced from the basic demands of learning to play an instrument.

Carmine Caruso's exercises begin with the premise that we are teaching the body to perform actions in time. The exercises are extremely basic, and he emphasized using a strict quarter note, subdivided, to break up each task into precisely performed actions. His idea was that by performing these exercises consciously and carefully, the body would find its own correct way of executing the notes. This helped me tremendously. After many, many teachers who told me to simply change my embouchure (where the mouthpiece is placed on the lips), Carmine got me on a path to at least being able to play consistently. I have to still practice a lot just to do that...

Developing a language in music is a whole other thing. And it is equally, if not more, important. Of course there are many paths.

When asked, my suggestion is that musicians should make up their own exercises as a path to finding their own language. In other words, no matter what music you want to play, you have to study the music that has come before. And based on what you find, create your own sets of things to practice. I also think it’s valuable as you write music to create exercises and studies that use the challenges of that particular piece. That’s the way I like to work and it is how I develop new musical ideas.

You've worked with musicians as varied as John Zorn, Misha Mengelberg, Myra Melford, Han Bennink, Uri Caine and the What We Live Trio. Which collaborations have been more productive for you?

I learned from so many people, including all those you mentioned. I still carry with me the lessons I learned playing with Horace Silver. I also feel a debt of gratitude to musicians Tim Berne, Don Byron, Mark Dresser, Vincent Herring, Joe Lovano and others who hired me early on. Currently fulfilling for me are my collaborations with Uri Caine, James Genus, Clarence Penn and Donny McCaslin from my Quintet. With David Torn, with Jamie Saft, Gene Lake, Brad Jones, DJ Olive, Marcus Strickland and Adam Benjamin in Keystone. Over the past few years I have enjoyed playing a lot with the tuba player Marcus Rojas. I used to play on quite a few pop recordings, and I learned a lot from doing that. The collaboration with Trisha Brown was also very dear to me, as I learned so much about working with the stage, with movement, with timing, and with visual elements.

The recording engineer Joe Ferla has recorded at least a dozen of my records. You could say that’s my most productive collaboration. I love working with Joe whenever I can get him.

The collaboration with Roy Campbell in creating the Festival of New Trumpet Music has been very inspiring and fulfilling for me. Roy is one of the great living masters of trumpet improvising.

Someone I admired very much though I only played with him once was Derek Bailey. His recent passing is a great loss.

I think the music on Keystone was heavily edited after recording process. The live production of the music on concerts must be really different. What´s changing?

The music on Keystone was probably not edited as much as you think. The problem of mixing live improvisation with electronics in time is one of how to maintain the flexibility and richness of both elements. Making Keystone was for me very much about finding a better way to do that. It involved a lot of pre-production work so that the actual recordings of the band could be played live in real time as much as possible. Of course there was editing after the fact also. Almost everything you hear these days has been edited to some degree. But you might be surprised to hear how much of the playing came from the original sessions.

When we play live the process is very different. My philosophy is that there’s no point handcuffing a band. I like to hear what people want to play. So we dispense with the pre-programmed, pre-created sounds, and create the pieces from the ground up. Ultimately my feeling is that if the themes I wrote are strong enough, they will hold up in these many different interpretations, while retaining their sense as compositions.

What do you think, that Roscoe Arbuckle would say to Keystone project? Haven´t you been worried that you connect things and time contexts that are just impossible to connect?

That’s a really good question! It has been fun to think about what Arbuckle might have thought about this music with his films. There’s no way of knowing, and he left no record that I could find about what he did want in terms of music. He probably didn’t feel he had so much choice, because the musical accompaniment was different in every cinema.

I would hope that after a little getting used to it he might enjoy this music and see the humor in it. Some of the music is funny, and the way it works with the film is part of the comedy. However, I also added a darker tone because I was influenced by the story of what happened to Arbuckle in a way that he could not possibly have been when he made these films.

What was the main feature (problem) in composing for the silent film? I think it was the first time you composed this way.

For me, the main problem was how to have an improvising band play with a film and not be tied into strict or static playing. What interests me in an improvising band is hearing varied amounts of freedom, and identifying every player’s personality and contribution to the music. I think that’s what makes jazz unique and powerful. My solution was to write a series of themes for the films that we could use as a basis for improvisation. The quality of themes would match scene to scene enough that the band would be able to play without having to watch the screen and match individual actions.

You have the reputation of being a voracious reader. What are the most interesting things you studied about the early times of film industry, Roscoe Arbuckle case and the social climate of the times?

I was excited to learn that many of these films were created in improvisation. They were made very quickly, and usually released immediately to theaters around the country. More people went to films then -- if you can believe it, movies were more popular then than they are now.

The downside was that as each film finished its run, the copies were often destroyed to make way for new releases. We’re lucky that some of these gems even survived.

You´re going to record a new record with your Quintet soon. Could you tell us what´s the project about? What´s new compared with the previous recordings of the group?

We’re going to record a handful of new pieces that are very recent. They deal with what you might think of as the new mainstream in jazz, an idea that has shifted a lot over the past few years. Again, in writing for the quintet I write tunes -- pieces that could be played by any musicians trained in jazz. This is a little different from how I write for my other groups, because though the players in the band are very important to me, I want these tunes to be able to be played by a more general body of players who are interested in going forward with the traditions of jazz.

The re-emergence of Wayne Shorter as a leader of a small improvising group has had tremendous importance for me. I feel that the way they are playing represents, in a sense, a new paradigm for how jazz tunes are performed and how improvisation works within that tradition.

[Late]

Something about Keystone really works — it's not just another "Miles Davis 70's period" influenced project. I think it will hold up over time (— but I also like The Infinite for whatever that's worth).

One thing I've noticed about Douglas's music: I tend to like the first of his projects with a particular band much more than any follow-up. The first Charms album, for instance, has much more impact for me than its successor. Same, too, with The Magic Triangle band and the string band that produced Parallel Worlds way back.

[Guest Chaney]

The Test: Dave Douglas (This article originally appeared in Jazz Review Issue 60/September 2004)

[sal]

Has anyone heard "Meaning and Mystery", the new quintet studio album?

[Aggie87]

A couple of comments in this thread...

I have it on my "to get" list.

[jlhoots]

Has anyone heard "Meaning and Mystery", the new quintet studio album?

I just received it from the Greenleaf site.

Listened once so far. Will listen many more times.

Sounds good to me.

Disclaimer: I'm a big Douglas fan.

[Aftab]

Recently picked up Strange Liberation, Keystone, and Freak In - diggin' them all

[Aggie87]

Bump...

Dave Douglas has a new release just out, in the paperback series. This one is Keystone: Live in Sweden. I'm eyeing it, as I really enjoyed the previous paperback set, Live at Bimhuis. The band includes Gene Lake, Marcus Strickland, Adam Benjamin, Brad Jones, and DJ Olive.

Anybody order this one yet?

Edited July 20, 2006 by Aggie87