You're my Thrill

[bertrand]

It seems to me that the composition You're My Thrill (from the Billie Holiday repertoire) played, for example, by Pepper Adams (10 to 4 at the Five Spot) and Ray Draper (Tuba Sounds) is the same as the piece played by Harold Land on Take Aim. Yet the first two list Sidney Clare and Jay Gorney as composers, and the Land lists Burton Lane.

A song search on allmusic.com (FWIW) lists Clare and Gorney as composers for all but a few of the 500+ versions out there.

What's the story? Who wrote this?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

[bertrand]

P.S.

I'll also check the copyright website later, but it's always down on Sunday mornings.

[jazzbo]

It was either Miles Davis or Cleanhead, right?

[Chuck Nessa]

Richard Carpenter.

[Spontooneous]

Red Burns.

[Jim Alfredson]

According to the Harry Fox Agency, which handles mechanical licensing:

Additional Information for:YOU'RE MY THRILL Writer(s):JAY GORNEY, SIDNEY CLAREHFA Song Code:Y61921

Publisher

Represented By HFA

NEXT DECADE MUSIC OBO GORNEY MUSICYBOURNE CO.

But also:

Additional Information for:YOU'RE MY THRILL Writer(s):BURTON LANE, NED WASHINGTONHFA Song Code:Y61922

Publisher

Represented By HFA

EMI ROBBINS CATALOG INC

So who knows?!

Edited January 1, 2006 by Jim Alfredson

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Same problem with "Lover man". Was it Ram Ramirez or Kurt Weill & Maxwell Anderson?

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Oops!

[Jim R]

I struggled with this question for awhile, and wondered how Lane got credited on the Land album. Then a few Google searches turned up this:

[from: http://www.originals.be/eng/main.cfm?c=t_upd_show&id=7253 ]

YOU'RE MY THRILL

(Jay Gorney/Sidney Clare)

o: Mike Doty Orch. (1933) - Bluebird

> Introduced in film Jimmy & Sally. Vocal: Ward Silloway. Jay Gorney also wrote Brother Can You Spare A Dime.

c: Lena Horne (1941) with Charlie Barnet's orchestra, Billie Holiday (1947) , Chet Baker (1950s) , Julie London (1950s) , Ella Fitzgerald (1950s) , Robert Palmer (1990) attributed to Washington/Lane, Maria Muldaur (1994) , Joni Mitchell (2000) ,

> Not to be confused with Ted Lewis' You're My Thrill written by Ned Washington & Burton Lane for the '34-film Here Comes The Band.

Odd that they seem to have been written around the same time.

[bertrand]

Thanks to the two Jims for their detective work.

Now the debate changes: it seems to me the tune on the Land album is the same as the other, but this seems to indicate that this is not the case.

What do you guys think?

Bertrand.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Looks like the only way to be certain which is which is to watch those two old films.

MG

[bertrand]

If others can ascertain that the tune performed by Land is not the same as the one performed by Adams and Draper, then I will assume the Burton Lane credit is correct.

But they sound the same to me...

Bertrand.

Edited January 2, 2006 by bertrand

[Chuck Nessa]

Couldn't this all be settled by listening to the dang music? Bertrand, it is your question and you have the avenue to solution in front of you.

We expect a report.

[bertrand]

Perhaps I did not make myself clear, so I will try to state it as simply as possible:

I listened to the Pepper Adams, the Ray Draper and the Harold Land pieces and I think they are the same composition.

Is there anyone here who feels that the tune performed by Land is a different composition? If yes, then my problem is solved and I'm just not hearing the difference, If no, then there's something funny going on.

Simple enough, no?

Bertrand.

Edited January 2, 2006 by bertrand

[bertrand]

Triple checking, I still maintain it's the same piece. Land plays it a little bit more lighthearted than the other two, and takes some liberties with the melody.

The head is a bit elusive, but there is one phrase that is characteristic of the song:

In Pepper's version, we first hear it at the 0:26 mark.

In Draper's version, it first appears at the 0:30 mark.

In Land's version, it is heard for the first time much later, around the 1:36 mark.

Bertrand.

[Jim Alfredson]

A more than likely scenario is that the two tunes you have versions of are actually the same tune, but whoever was in charge of getting the licenses for the release of the one of the records screwed up and credited the wrong version of "You're My Thrill". It's easy enough to do. When getting licenses for the seven cover tunes on the upcoming Root Doctor CD, I ran into about 10 different tunes called "Mississippi Blues". I used the information from a Rory Block CD to find the correct writer (thus realizing it's in the public domain), but if her CD is wrong, then I'm wrong as well. You can see how this perpetuates itself.

Licensing turns up interesting things. For instance, one of the cover tunes we do on the Root Doctor CD I thought was called "Love Bone" (originally done by Johnnie Taylor) and on most CDs that cover it, that is what it is called. But the real title of the song I found out is actually "Love Bones". Same thing for "Turning Point", originally done by Tyrone Davis. The real title is "The Turning Point", but even on his album it's called "Turning Point".

[bertrand]

I just checked allmusic.com. There are 153 hits for this title. Most are credited to Clare/Gorney, a few to Lane/Washington. I listened to a few Clare/Gorney versions, and a few of the Burton Lane versions. They are ALL the same song, with the melodic phrase alluded to above.

So what's the deal? There may be two songs with this title, but all jazz musicians seem to want to play the one Billie Holiday did. Most albums credit it to Clare/Gorney, some to Lane/Washington.

Now I will try to track down the musicals (don't know when or how) and see how different those two pieces are. One of them should be Billie's tune, and the other some other tune.

I'd also be curious to know if any jazz musician covered the 'other' song, i.e. the one that Billie did not perform.

Bertrand.

[bertrand]

Jim, I'm thinking the same as you. I've found more than a few screw-ups at Blue Note, a couple of them in the forthcoming batch of RVGs. I pointed them out to Cuscuna and he assured me they would be fixed.

I'm really just stuck on this one point now: what does the song called 'You're My Thrill' that was NOT performed by Bille Holiday sound like? I haven't yet tracked down a version.

Bertrand.

[Jim R]

Just reporting back to say that I've never heard the Harold Land album, but it seems likely that Jim is correct re the miscredit. I don't think I've ever heard the Lane tune.

I've encountered this phenomenon before as well (can't think of any specific examples right now, but one was a Mel Torme composition which he recorded, which had the same title as another well-known tune).

In a similar vein , I came across a post at AAJ today where somebody mentioned the tune "Only Trust Your Heart", and said that it was composed by Benny Carter. This conflicted with the info I had (crediting it to Sammy Cahn and Nicholas Brodsky), but there seems to be widespread credit given to Carter. Anybody know anything about that one?

[Kalo]

Time to 'fess up.

I actually wrote it.

One of my best "pre-natal" tunes...

[brownie]

'You're My Thrill' as played on the Harold Land 'Take Aim' album is the same tune as the one sung sung by Billie Holiday in her classic Decca version. And others...

The original BN vinyl release of 'Take Aim' has liner notes by Leonard Feather who refers to the song as 'the 1935 standard by Burton Lane'.

BUT the copyright to the song on the album label credits the song to Clare and Gorney!

Feather produced the session and seems to have goofed! Not the first time!

[Jim R]

The original BN vinyl release of 'Take Aim' has liner notes by Leonard Feather who refers to the song as 'the 1935 standard by Burton Lane'.

At least he didn't credit it to himself, eh?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

In a similar vein , I came across a post at AAJ today where somebody mentioned the tune "Only Trust Your Heart", and said that it was composed by Benny Carter. This conflicted with the info I had (crediting it to Sammy Cahn and Nicholas Brodsky), but there seems to be widespread credit given to Carter. Anybody know anything about that one?

I posted subsequently on that thread saying that Houston Person's version of "Only trust your heart" is credited to Benny Carter and Sammy Cahn. So, a third set of credits on that one!

MG

[jazztrain]

Jim, I'm thinking the same as you. I've found more than a few screw-ups at Blue Note, a couple of them in the forthcoming batch of RVGs. I pointed them out to Cuscuna and he assured me they would be fixed.

I'm really just stuck on this one point now: what does the song called 'You're My Thrill' that was NOT performed by Bille Holiday sound like? I haven't yet tracked down a version.

Bertrand.

Bertrand:

For my radio show, I usually try to track down and then present composer credits and have come across many examples of errors of this sort. My guess is that they're usually due to a combination of laziness, sloppiness, or just plain ignorance.

In one of the more bizarre examples, the composer credits for Mercer Ellington's "Things Ain't What They Used To Be" (sometimes Duke Ellington and Don George get partial credit as well), on the CD reissue of the Jim Hall Trio "Jazz Guitar" album creatively get transformed to to "Duke Ellington / Johnny Mercer"). A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, indeed! I assume, but can't confirm, that the same error appeared on the original LP (can anyone confirm this?).

By the way, there's a great version of "You're My Thrill" by Ben Webster on Emarcy.

[037]

In one of the more bizarre examples, the composer credits for Mercer Ellington's "Things Ain't What They Used To Be" (sometimes Duke Ellington and Don George get partial credit as well), on the CD reissue of the Jim Hall Trio "Jazz Guitar" album creatively get transformed to to "Duke Ellington / Johnny Mercer"). A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, indeed! I assume, but can't confirm, that the same error appeared on the original LP (can anyone confirm this?).

Jim Hall's original Jazz Guitar LP says "By Ellington and Mercer"

.