connoisseur series500 Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Also, can you help me out with #5 a little. Can you give me some example of control issues? Not letting the wife any friends, not letting the hubby have any of his friends over to watch sports? How about letting the hubby to have friends over to party real loud and listen to jazz cranked up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 most marriages break down when one or more of the five following factors are present (in no particular order): 1 - breach of trust 2 - money problems/issues 3 - childrens' problems/issues 4 - dissatisfaction in the bedroom 5 - control issues between spouses therapy can sometimes help for items 2 through 4 but when you have item number one, the marriage is very difficult (if not impossible) to repair. Actually, this is a clever summation. By #1, you mean infidelity, right BM? Also, can you help me out with #5 a little. Can you give me some example of control issues? #1 includes infidelity but by no means is limited to that. trust between spouses is so fundamental that in our system of jurisprudence we define the duty between spouses as the highest fiduciary duty that there is. and the simplest of things can actually amount to breach of trust issues. for example, if one spouse tells the other a lie - instant trust issue. #5 is much more subtle and present in most marriages and divorces. two people living together necessarily have issues of control. the question is one of balance and understanding. you have heard that "marriage is a series of compromises?" the degree that you control and allow yourself to be controlled is what constantly needs to be re-examined, and yes discussed between you and your spouse. many successful marriages outliane areas that each spouse may "control" so that each person has a "sphere of influence." this is an endless topic and the above is just a thumbnail--since you asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 (edited) oh - i forgot to give "control" examples! how about this one - "honey--you are not going to wear that out to dinner tonight are you?" or "i expect dinner to be on the table at 6:00" control issues can be direct or indirect, subtle or not, aggressive or passive aggressive, etc........... Edited August 1, 2006 by Bright Moments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 How about letting the hubby to have friends over to party real loud and listen to jazz cranked up? So, you get cranked up to listen to jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Wow...I can't believe the reactions to Dmitry's post here. You people really think that, in a relationship between a married woman and a single man (or vice versa), both are equally guilty? An interesting interpretation, but only one party here is breaking the promise they made. I'm not saying that the single partner is a shining example of morality, but jeez... Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Hey, how come the yurpeans are never in on these discussions about wild sexcapades and deep dark secrets? They're much cagier than we are.......better trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I know for a fact you can blame couw personally for countless divorces in that part of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 ive got a new idea for a thread: THE ORGANISSIMO KINSEY REPORT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I know for a fact you can blame couw personally for countless divorces in that part of the world. ka-chingg! This is why us yurpeans stay out of these mud pool discussions with merican morals flying to and fro and hitting the fan. Some of youse are sure fast from the hip with their moral judgements, is this one of those college fraternity contest disciplines? FFA, don't blame anyone too much. Shite flies better than birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I know for a fact you can blame couw personally for countless divorces in that part of the world. ka-chingg! This is why us yurpeans stay out of these mud pool discussions with merican morals flying to and fro and hitting the fan. Some of youse are sure fast from the hip with their moral judgements, is this one of those college fraternity contest disciplines? FFA, don't blame anyone too much. Shite flies better than birds. I think he should join the ranks and blame you. Whatcha thinks 'bout that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rostasi Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 (edited) Do you mind being called "Patty"? Rod That's not my name Rod. But, I don't get apoplectic about it. If the worst thing that someone does is assign me a nickname, I'd consider myself Lady Luck's own tot. OK, just wondering. I know someone from my schooldays who used to go by "Debbie", but insists on being referred to as "Debra" now. Like Chewy, I've nothing to really add to this thread, except that it takes time, self-reflection and reassessment. Also, try to go and do something that you've always thought about doing, but have never taken the proper time to do. Sometimes that brings you back to zero and a new beginning. Hang in there Paul. Rod Edited August 1, 2006 by rostasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Whatcha thinks 'bout that? if it flies, it must have wings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Whatcha thinks 'bout that? if it flies, it must have wings Just in case it gets hungry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I know for a fact you can blame couw personally for countless divorces in that part of the world. I heard that the 1626 limb of his rather extensive family tree contains a certain Mr. Minuit! So you can blame him for that as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Wow...I can't believe the reactions to Dmitry's post here. You people really think that, in a relationship between a married woman and a single man (or vice versa), both are equally guilty? An interesting interpretation, but only one party here is breaking the promise they made. I'm not saying that the single partner is a shining example of morality, but jeez... Agree. Sheesh, another one who likes married women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Wow...I can't believe the reactions to Dmitry's post here. You people really think that, in a relationship between a married woman and a single man (or vice versa), both are equally guilty? An interesting interpretation, but only one party here is breaking the promise they made. I'm not saying that the single partner is a shining example of morality, but jeez... Agree. Sheesh, another one who likes married women. Sure, as long as they're not married to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 (edited) Do you mind being called "Patty"? Rod That's not my name Rod. But, I don't get apoplectic about it. If the worst thing that someone does is assign me a nickname, I'd consider myself Lady Luck's own tot. OK, just wondering. I know someone from my schooldays who used to go by "Debbie", but insists on being referred to as "Debra" now. Like Chewy, I've nothing to really add to this thread, except that it takes time, self-reflection and reassessment. Also, try to go and do something that you've always thought about doing, but have never taken the proper time to do. Sometimes that brings you back to zero and a new beginning. Hang in there Paul. Rod Rod, most people who know me in real life call me "Patricia." But, there have been a few who have called me "Patty". Nobody calls me "Pat" or "Patsy", thank God. I don't make a big deal about it, but when I introduce myself I use my name. If they choose to nickname me, I take it in the spirit in which it's done. Further to the flat comment about single guys/women sleeping with married guys/women, I of course meant if the single person knows and does it anyway. Marriage is complicated enough without somebody else agreeing to help the married person figuratively spit on their commitment to their spouse. Now, I'm not saying that people who do it are horrible people. I'm just saying that promising to stay faithful to one person lasts until they agree to end it. Otherwise, why be married? Many people, men and women, like the stabilty of marriage and the better lifestyle they have. But, they still see themselves as single and very often will go so far as to present themselves as single to unsuspecting people, which compounds the original intent to cheat. Thus, they have somebody who provides the variety that they don't have in their marriage. For both men and women, it's not about older vs younger, but old vs new. Women too get bored with their partners and are just as vulnerable to offers of an exciting, good-looking guy who seems to find them alluring. So this was not meant as a slam against men, but as an observation of what can happen to a relationship should we get too comfortable and forget that there are lots of temptations out there for both partners. It's very comfortable to have somebody at home doing all the things that make life pleasant, cooking, cleaning, child-raising etc. Many married people who get bored with their spouse think that it's perfectly fine to strike out on their own, from time to time, to see what they're missing out there. By doing that they risk their marriage, and that's their choice. Sometimes the very fact that they could get caught adds to the excitement. The other person is more exciting because they usually are not tasked with the day to day mundane details of which real life consists. My feeling is that if a married person should find themselves involved in an extramarital fling, the worst thing they can do is to confess to their spouse, if the other person didn't find out independantly. Why try to assuage one's guilt by passing on the pain to the non-cheating partner? The only reason anyone does that is to make themselves feel better. The thing about that is that the person they cheated on is then forced to make a decision between forgiving the cheater, or asking for a divorce. That, IMO, is a crappy thing to do. If the affair is over, the guilty person should just shut up and live with the guilt, vowing silently to shape up. But, I still say that anyone who thinks that they can carry on a long-term affair and not have their spouse know about it is fooling themselves. Their wife/husband at least suspects and in most cases actually knows. They are settling for a partner whom they can't trust. Who are we to judge how a wife/husband deals with the knowledge that they are being lied to, sometimes for years? Moralizing was certainly not my point. It was just that marriage is a very specific commitment and if we are not prepared to live up to that promise, the honest thing to do is to get out of Dodge. Edited August 2, 2006 by patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Good post, Patty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 (edited) I just feel that marriage is ALL about trust. Having said that, there are some couples who don't seem to mind that their spouse is runnin' around and so it's difficult to generalize. Everybody has their own idea of just what they can put up with. I don't think that it's being old-fashioned, or prissy to expect someone who has promised to follow the rules as they are set out when they make the decision to get married to do that. Sometimes people get married for reasons other than wanting to make a commitment to the other person. Perhaps they are marrying the other person to legitimize a surprise pregnancy, but have given their partner the impression that that's the only reason they agreed to the marriage. The man feels entitled, as long as he supports his family and lives with them. Not as rare as I thought, it turns out. Sometimes they are getting married because all their friends are married and they don't realize how long life is these days. Those people should, IMO, hold off on getting involved in a new relationship until they can tie up the decision on what they are going to do about their marriage. To me, it shows great disrespect for one's partner when they are under the impression that their promise, given in good faith, is not taken as seriously by their spouse, having found out about the deception. The only thing to do is to talk to the other person and decide what is to be done. But, I still say that if cheating has occurred and the affair is over, and other person really doesn't know, the cheater should just shut up and go on. Unfortunately, affairs don't always remain secret. Unless you conducted it in a remote cave somewhere, your spouse is quite likely to find out about it. They may still choose to accept that they can't trust you and stay in the marriage anyway, living a life of quiet desperation, waiting for the next one to happen. I guess some people can live that way. Most people are hurt beyond imagining. Even if they don't leave, the marriage will never be the same again. So, Paul is going through a terribly difficult time. But, he will get through it, stronger and better than ever. Life gives us crap like this to deal with and how we do that is the difference between somebody who is felled by adversity and somebody who dusts themselves off and gets back on the rollercoaster. Paul is a survivor. Edited August 2, 2006 by patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I just feel that marriage is ALL about trust. I totally agree, Patricia. Trust is the cornerstone in all relationships, whether they be marriages or friendships. I know that I never could have cheated on my wife, and I'm confident that she felt the same way. It's not worth the guilt and hurt; it takes a long time to establish trust and hardly any time to lose it. The trust I lost was trust in the strength of the relationship. Even if she called me today and said that she changed her mind, I don't think we could go back to where we were. I mean, this could happen again in a month or a year or five years. I couldn't live with that uncertainty. I think we've reached the end and that makes me very sad, but I must accept it. So, Paul is going through a terribly difficult time. But, he will get through it, stronger and better than ever. Life gives us crap like this to deal with and how we do that is the difference between somebody who is felled by adversity and somebody who dusts themselves off and gets back on the rollercoaster. Paul is a survivor. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I look forward to getting beyond this. I think once I get my own place and start working towards re-establishing my independence things may look brighter. You know, we did an interesting thing when we were working with the therapist. We did this personality profile called an Enneagram. I tend to be very skeptical about this type of thing, but this seemed to supply us with a lot of answers. You answer some questions which then put you in one of nine general groups. If anyone here has done this, I'd like to hear how you felt about it. I was surprised at my results, but it made sense as I read more about my type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 How I dealt with my "divorce" (we weren't offishilly married, but y'know ....): Which reminds of a tune what a music pal of mine wrote many years ago: "Victoria Bitter, she made me that way ..." Ha ha. Also: Divorse Smoother Only joking ... mostly. FFA, hang in there - it does get better/easier. I may have missed it somewhere, but ... any kids involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 (edited) We may have done one of those tests at my former bank, only I remember there being four main personality types, not nine. I came out as rather detail-oriented. But I was also a mix. I was introverted but liked dealing with people. How's that for a contradiction? My greatest fear (at work) is not doing a complete job and being called to task on that score. I remember my boss came out as a control freak. The greatest fear for those types is loss of control. They're willing to crush someone's ego as long as they don't lose control. What an asshole! Edited August 2, 2006 by connoisseur series500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 (edited) I may have missed it somewhere, but ... any kids involved? No kids, thankfully. But I'm really going to miss the dog. A lot. Edited August 2, 2006 by Free For All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Divorse Smoother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Divorse Smoother Maybe I should just go ahead and get that Jazz Crusaders set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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