turning the tables

[sidewinder]

My table has two arms!

Looks like that woodwork needs some serious weekly polishing with the Mr Sheen !

[Stereojack]

Two turntables:

For LP's - Thorens TD320 MkII

For 78's - Thorens TD124 w/ Shure SME arm

Happy camper

[erhodes]

Three...

VPI HW 19 Mk III with a Rega RB300 arm and Grado Signature cartridge. That's the only one up and running.

Also,

Linn LP 12 with an unidentified arm that has to be remounted

Phillips 312

I just came by the Linn and haven't used it yet. Haven't unpacked the Phillips in 20 years or so.

[Z-Man]

Another Rega P3 owner here - with RB300 arm and Dynavector cart. A great setup for the money.

The only downside is that the Rega runs a quarter-step sharp. Two big rubber bands (like the kind you find on broccoli) around the bearing wheel beneath the platter slows it down to just about perfect speed.

My understanding is that most (if not all) Regas share this problem.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Another Rega P3 owner here - with RB300 arm and Dynavector cart. A great setup for the money.

The only downside is that the Rega runs a quarter-step sharp. Two big rubber bands (like the kind you find on broccoli) around the bearing wheel beneath the platter slows it down to just about perfect speed.

My understanding is that most (if not all) Regas share this problem.

I'm shocked! I assume you mean that it's a quarter of a semitone up. I find it incredible that a firm would manufacture a series of decks that doesn't quite run at the correct speed - and not correct the problem!

But it occurs to me - how would I know if my own machine were out? I don't know.

MG

[Harold_Z]

Another Rega P3 owner here - with RB300 arm and Dynavector cart. A great setup for the money.

The only downside is that the Rega runs a quarter-step sharp. Two big rubber bands (like the kind you find on broccoli) around the bearing wheel beneath the platter slows it down to just about perfect speed.

My understanding is that most (if not all) Regas share this problem.

I'm shocked! I assume you mean that it's a quarter of a semitone up. I find it incredible that a firm would manufacture a series of decks that doesn't quite run at the correct speed - and not correct the problem!

But it occurs to me - how would I know if my own machine were out? I don't know.

MG

It helps if you play or own a musical instrument. You compare the pitch you know is correct to the pitch on the record. The problem is that records can be off pitch also, so it has to be a record you know is perfectly in tune. OR you can buy a test record.

A variable speed tt usually has a visual strobe where you can tell if it's at the right speed.

Enough records are off pitch that for me a variable speed TT is a necessity.

[Jim Alfredson]

I have a VPI HW-19Jr. It's the only piece of gear from my once magnificent $8000 stereo system that I have kept (ah, the joys of marraige!) It has a Rega arm on it (not sure which one) and a Grado cartridge (again, not sure which... I think a Red?) and it goes through a McCormick preamp. It's a nice sounding set-up.

These days I only listen to vinyl when I'm dubbing something into the computer for someone.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Do you get the same pitch/speed problems with CDs? If not, why not, I wonder?

MG

[Harold_Z]

Do you get the same pitch/speed problems with CDs? If not, why not, I wonder?

MG

You can. It depends on the mastering (or remastering). It shouldn't happen (unless intentional) with something that was recorded digitally from the start, but when tape or turntables (vinyl, shellac etc) are involved speed diffferences between machines can caused pitch problems. If the person doing the digital transfer is aware and takes the trouble to correct it (JRT Davies did) then the finished product should be accurate.

BTW, many early turntables had variable speed to allow for pitch correction.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Do you get the same pitch/speed problems with CDs? If not, why not, I wonder?

MG

You can. It depends on the mastering (or remastering). It shouldn't happen (unless intentional) with something that was recorded digitally from the start, but when tape or turntables (vinyl, shellac etc) are involved speed diffferences between machines can caused pitch problems. If the person doing the digital transfer is aware and takes the trouble to correct it (JRT Davies did) then the finished product should be accurate.

BTW, many early turntables had variable speed to allow for pitch correction.

No, what I meant was, do CD players run at different speeds, as well as turntables?

MG

[Harold_Z]

They do make variable speed cd players. I've never owned one and I'm not sure how they work, but it's not the same principle that applies to turntables or tape players. In tt and tape, when the tape travels faster or the tt turns faster the pitch increases, the tempo gets faster and vice versa. This is ususally just a variation between machines that can get magnified over several generations. In digital media you can intentionally change the tempo without affecting the pitch AND if so desired you CAN alter the pitch.

So ususally DDD recorded are true to the pitch origanlly recorded (unless intentionally altered). ADD or AAD can be off pitch because they are subject to the variables that are effect pitch and tempo.

Edited September 20, 2006 by Harold_Z

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

They do make variable speed cd players. I've never owned one and I'm not sure how they work, but it's not the same principle that applies to turntables or tape players. In tt and tape, when the tape travels faster or the tt turns faster the pitch increases, the tempo gets faster and vice versa. This is ususally just a variation between machines that can get magnified over several generations. In digital media you can intentionally change the tempo without affecting the pitch AND if so desired you CAN alter the pitch.

So ususally DDD recorded are true to the pitch origanlly recorded (unless intentionally altered). ADD or AAD can be off pitch because they are subject to the variables that are effect pitch and tempo.

Thanks for that, but it wasn't quite what I meant. All CD players have to play at varying speeds. The CD player reads the disc from the inside to the outside (so it turns anticlockwise viewed from above). The data bits take up the same amount of physical space whichever track they're in so, there's less data in the inner tracks than the outer ones. To get the music coming out at the right speed, the CD player has to constantly slow down.

What I meant was that, given how cheap many CD players are, is it known that some brands are inaccurate in the way the Rega P3 is?

MG

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Nice! I've got a TD-160, and I absolutely love the table. It's a piece of art, AFAIC, and you'll spend hours being mesmerized by the ssllooww drop of the needle to the record. Sound is terrific, even though I'm running a (in my opinion) subpar ortofon cart. I'd like to switch for a Grado at some point.

Only drawback to the TD-160 is the lack of auto-shutoff, a problem you won't have with this unit. Fell asleep one night listening to a minty copy of Parlan's Movin' and Groovin'...woke up around 3:00 a.m. and realized the needle had been tracking in the runout groove for about 5 hours!

Have fun, report back when you get it and get it set up.

I have an 80's Denon direct drive and just purchased this Thorens last night from Vinyl Nirvana. Originally, I'd been looking for a refurbished AR ES-1 but .....well, stuff happens!

So how'd I do? Anyone ever owned one of these units?

Hey Peter, she's up and running! This table is a big improvement over the Denon direct drive I've had for eons. I've been spinning Lucky Thompson's 'Lucky Strikes' several times over to let it all soak in! The only black mark in the equation is a bit of left front corner damage sustained during transit. You'll notice from the previous link that this wasn't there before. Aaargh! The BN in the picture is the first LP I spun on the Thorens -- $50 if you can guess the LP?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It's clearly Ike Quebec's "It might as well be spring" side 2. You can tell because of the distance between the inter-track spaces.

MG

[Harold_Z]

What I meant was that, given how cheap many CD players are, is it known that some brands are inaccurate in the way the Rega P3 is?

I don't believe so. The chepness may manifeest itself in relativly bad sound, but I don't believe the pitch is affected.

[Claude]

I have a Thorens TD126 MkIII with SME 3009 IIIS arm and (for the moment) Ortofon Vinyl Master Red cartridge, which looks like this one:

I mainly buy used LPs which were released in the late 70's and early 80's, lots of ECM, Enja or MPS albums and stuff that has never been reissued on CD.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

What I meant was that, given how cheap many CD players are, is it known that some brands are inaccurate in the way the Rega P3 is?

I don't believe so. The chepness may manifeest itself in relativly bad sound, but I don't believe the pitch is affected.

Thanks Harold.

MG

[Deuterium]

I operate an LP12/Aro setup not dis-similar to this one (but with a felt mat )

I have one of these also. Nice table.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

It's clearly Ike Quebec's "It might as well be spring" side 2. You can tell because of the distance between the inter-track spaces.

MG

Wrong-o!! ...but you still win a pint of John Courage for playing 'What's That BN?'!

[Daniel A]

I have a Thorens TD126 MkIII with SME 3009 IIIS arm and (for the moment) Ortofon Vinyl Master Red cartridge...

So you've upgraded from the TD 160, Claude! What do you think of the TD 126?

Myself, I have a Thorens TD 125 Mk II with SME 3009 Improved arm (even if it's said to be worse than its predecessor) and Shure V15-IV cartridge.

[Claude]

So you've upgraded from the TD 160, Claude! What do you think of the TD 126?

Myself, I have a Thorens TD 125 Mk II with SME 3009 Improved arm (even if it's said to be worse than its predecessor) and Shure V15-IV cartridge.

Hi Daniel,

My TD160, which I bought very cheap as a re-entry into the world of vinyl, had problems with the motor (occasional vibrations), so when someone offered my a refurbished TD126, I jumped on the occasion. Around the same time, I had auctionned an SME 3009 III on Ebay. The seller of the TD126 made me an armboard for the SME.

The TD126 MkIII as well as the SME III are not so well regarded on the vinyl scene today, because the TD126 MKIII uses electronic speed correction that purists hate, and the SME III - which is much lighter than the classic SME 3009 II - is often regarded as a "plastic toy arm". But this has nothing to do with their actual performance. It was a very popular top level combination in the early 80's when I first became a hifi enthousiast (at 12), so it's now a childhood dream come true for me

I intended to get the ideally suited Shure V 15 VxMR for this combination, but as it recently went out of production, prices went very high and the availability of needle replacements is not guaranted.

As I use the same cartridge on both turntables, I could compare their performance. The TD126 has a cleaner, more solid and transparent sound.

Edited September 25, 2006 by Claude

[Clunky]

I've got the possiblity of getting a used but excellent condition Linn LP12 with Ittok arm and Lingo power supply, I currently have a Rega P3 and RB300. Anyone have experience of LP12s, I've read mixed things on goggling it. I will be auditioning it so ultimately my ears will decide. Any thoughts.?