erhodes Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 I've searched this forum but can't find any early discussion of the audio on the Art Blakey 1960 Mosaic. I have the lp's and they've always seemed virtually mono. There was some discussion of this on rec.music.bluenote when the set first came out and, IIRC, it was inconclusive. Someone contacted Mosaic and they responded that the set was made from the Blue Note stereo masters. I have none of the original Blue Notes but my experience is that the BN/RVG stereo is fairly pronounced. It is certainly that way on my copy of "Free for All". Can anyone comment? I would even be interested in comments on the cd's. Does anyone have a copy of this set with pronounced stereo separation, particularly the lp version? Quote
erhodes Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Posted September 17, 2006 Have you listened to it? ? Yes. That's why I described it as virtually mono. There's almost no stereo separation. Quote
jazzbo Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 I have the cd set. The stereo separation is not as wide as some of the McMastered cds I've in my collection, but stereo separation there is (sounds sort of stereo lp like to me). Quote
Stereojack Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 I have the cd set. The stereo separation is not as wide as some of the McMastered cds I've in my collection, but stereo separation there is (sounds sort of stereo lp like to me). I had the Mosaic set - it was definitely stereo. As pronounced as the original LP's? Probably not. I got rid of it because the sound was surprisingly inferior, with unacceptable distortion in places, and I already had all of the music elsewhere. One of Mosaic's poorer efforts. Quote
jazzbo Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 Well, what I meant by "stereo lp like" was that the channel separation was not as pronounced as on a lot of contemporaneous cds, more like that channel separation on lps. I had to have Mosaic replace a few cds on that Mosaic set that had skipping and other problems. After that I had a set that I like. . . .What I like about these cds is that they erred by omission; they didn't have a thin shrill sound like some others, for example the Rivers and Morgan. Quote
Parkertown Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 Sorry Ed...perhaps I was in a flippant mood when I posted that. This set has always had plenty of stereo spread for me. But it has been a while since I've played it. I shall try to relisten today... Some of these sessions are recorded too hot...it's that way on the masters, as noted in the booklet. Can't really be fixed too much. Quote
Stereojack Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 Some of these sessions are recorded too hot...it's that way on the masters, as noted in the booklet. Can't really be fixed too much. That's what they say, but I don't believe it. The LP's sound fine. Quote
Parkertown Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 Perhaps the mastering engineer was not privvy to whatever secret-formula RVG had to use to make these sound better on the original Lps... -_- Quote
Parkertown Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 Okay, I owe Ed Rhodes a big apology. You're most certainly correct! I just scanned through nearly the entire set and that's some of the most narrow stereo I've ever heard. It's not until the sixth session (3/14/61) that I hear any seperation and then, it's only on the track, "Those Who Sit and Wait." Then on the next track, it goes back to that narrow stereo. Hell, it might even be mono...a listen on headphones might reveal this even better. The live session at Birdland that closes this set is definitely wide stereo, but borders on distortion... Please forgive my impulsive decision to be flip. You are so right... Quote
Parkertown Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 Borders, hell...it's totally distorted... Quote
erhodes Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Posted September 17, 2006 Okay, I owe Ed Rhodes a big apology. You're most certainly correct! I just scanned through nearly the entire set and that's some of the most narrow stereo I've ever heard. It's not until the sixth session (3/14/61) that I hear any seperation and then, it's only on the track, "Those Who Sit and Wait." Then on the next track, it goes back to that narrow stereo. Hell, it might even be mono...a listen on headphones might reveal this even better. The live session at Birdland that closes this set is definitely wide stereo, but borders on distortion... Please forgive my impulsive decision to be flip. You are so right... Hey...I'm just glad you were able to confirm what I heard. It's always been strange about this set. I think a lot of people were dissatisfied with the audio to some degree but no one has been able to figure our what happened and Mosaic kind of stonewalled the thing. I was wondering whether or not anyone had addressed it with Mosaic but so far it seems that everyone just worked out their own solution. Given what I read when brownsing the ebay madness thread, collecting the original BN vinyl doesn't look like much of an option an this point. Thanks to everyone for the feedback. And, Parkertown, thanks for taking a second listen. I wonder what the hell happened with this set... Quote
sidewinder Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) Interesting thread. I have the Blakey set on vinyl so I'll give it a spin during the week. Never noticed any particularly bad quality before though. Fortuitously, I have pretty well all the LPs used in this set (except 'Pisces' and the two 'Jazz Corners') on mono NY USAs as well. I've always preferred these for soundstage/dynamics but if I get time I'll do a bit of cross-checking. Edited September 17, 2006 by sidewinder Quote
jazzbo Posted September 17, 2006 Report Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) Borders, hell...it's totally distorted... Yes indeed. The mono lps are better, but not without problems IIRC. Edited September 17, 2006 by jazzbo Quote
sidewinder Posted October 15, 2006 Report Posted October 15, 2006 Up for this thread. I finally got round to checking out the sound on the LPs and as a precaution I put the entire set through the VPI beforehand. Sound overall seems pretty good to me - although the studio sessons have hardly any stereo separation (if any) apparent. Doesn't sound at all bad. The stereo separation only starts to become noticeable with the live Birdland tracks. Quote
JSngry Posted October 15, 2006 Report Posted October 15, 2006 Our equation for today: (Original BN Mastering & Mixing) - Alfred Lion = RVG + Everybody Else Quote
erhodes Posted October 15, 2006 Author Report Posted October 15, 2006 Up for this thread. I finally got round to checking out the sound on the LPs and as a precaution I put the entire set through the VPI beforehand. Sound overall seems pretty good to me - although the studio sessons have hardly any stereo separation (if any) apparent. Doesn't sound at all bad. The stereo separation only starts to become noticeable with the live Birdland tracks. I assume, though, that the original Blue Notes had the usual RVG separation in their stereo incarnation. Jim S is probably right, though I thought Mosaic pressed from BN masters. I thought that was the way it worked with their BN reissues. Why would they remaster and eliminate the stereo? Or did they press from mono masters and just not tell anyone? I suppose it's moot... Quote
J Larsen Posted October 15, 2006 Report Posted October 15, 2006 If somebody is kind enough and has the time, could they post the titles of the albums that make up this set? I'm curious to know what I'm missing. Thanks. Quote
Daniel A Posted October 15, 2006 Report Posted October 15, 2006 If somebody is kind enough and has the time, could they post the titles of the albums that make up this set? I'm curious to know what I'm missing. Thanks. Here's a link to a Lee Morgan discography: http://www014.upp.so-net.ne.jp/lee/lee/leeabm08.htm There are links to the sessions included in the Blakey set to the upper right. Quote
shaft Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 Hi! Just a word about he BN Stereo spread. A ot of the early RVG's has very very narrow stereo spread. Personallu I don't like it and have replaced for instance RVG's Hank Mobley's "Soul Station" to the old CD issue for that reason. Shaft Quote
Lush Life Posted March 28, 2008 Report Posted March 28, 2008 I just bought this set from someone on e-bay, $155, I had planned to buy it when it was available from Mosaic, but the budget didn't allow it, and then it was *poof* gone. I didn't know about the distortion issues. Am I going to regret buying this? Quote
porcy62 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Posted March 28, 2008 (edited) I just bought this set from someone on e-bay, $155, I had planned to buy it when it was available from Mosaic, but the budget didn't allow it, and then it was *poof* gone. I didn't know about the distortion issues. Am I going to regret buying this? IMHO no, 155 bucks is a fair price, and you got the bonus tracks and the booklet, though I admit I dislike the RVG Remastered sound, usually I still prefer the early BN cd. I have a "47 west" stereo without "Ear" of At The Jazz Corner Of The World II so I presume it's an early Liberty with old label. I'll give to it a spin right now. edit: channel separation is not an issue on this, at least on my rig. Nice sound and a punchy double bass on my copy. If I should find a flaw it might be the piano's recording, slightly distorted on some of the peaks. BTW never noticed the Mosaic lp set as bad sounding. edit of edit: actually the sound is not so great as in the first take I heard, (ATJCOTW vol 2), don't know how to call it, a tape defect? edit of edit of edit: the very same on Mosaic reissue, definitely a unlucky recording. The studio sessions on Mosaic sound nice from what I am hearing right now. Edited March 28, 2008 by porcy62 Quote
kh1958 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Posted March 28, 2008 I bought it when it came out and nary a regret has ever darkened my brow. Quote
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