*** Frank Zappa ***

[Big Wheel]

I love the little Zappa I have and I'm always looking to get more. Here's what I have:

Freak Out!

We're Only In It for The Money

Hot Rats

Waka Jawaka

Over-Nite Sensation

Sheik Yerbouti

Joe's Garage

So what should I get next? What do folks recommend?

I'd add to Dave Garrett's suggestions:

Bongo's Fury, Zappa in New York, The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life, Make a Jazz Noise Here,

BUT ABOVE ALL

Roxy & Elsewhere

You deserve it and you'll love it.

I have had this record in heavy rotation lately. FZ seems to have been at his best with drummers that grooved hard, and Thompson and Humphrey fit the bill IMO much more than Bozzio, Colaiuta, Wackerman et al. The depth of that pocket on More Trouble Every Day and the bridge to Village of the Sun is just awesome. Plus, George Duke is just a badass.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Big Wheel

[7/4]

Daniel Schorr And Frank Zappa Were Friends. Really.

[7/4]

Frank Zappa's Musical Language.

[dalemcfarland]

Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart were at the top of a very short list of rock bands I listened to religiously in the 60s. IMO Zappa elevated the wah-wah pedal to an art form, and essentially invented the 3/4 rock beat. I too preferred the music over the theatrics, but he always gave me a healthy dose of brain food. Even today, I think "Twenty Small Cigars" (from Chunga's Revenge) is one of the most beautiful jazz waltzes ever written.

[7/4]

Not always part of my diet, but they have been the main course many times.

[mjzee]

I think he hit his peak in the '68 - '71 timeframe. From Uncle Meat through Fillmore East, there was a consistent level of inspired creativity. Then came his fall from the stage, and, except for little glimmers along the way, he kinda lost it. Maybe it was the hospital bills and the demands of feeding a large family...who knows. But from Over-Nite Sensation and Apostrophe onward, it was all downhill.

[7/4]

I don't know about that. I love the underexposed band with Jean-Luc Ponty, the studio material from Lather (Studio Tan), the later chamber music (the Yellow Shark), computer music (Jazz From Hell and related tracks)...there's so many different periods after that to check out.

[AmirBagachelles]

Apostrophe is the studio peak in my opinion, however Lather is quite good and captures some studio work post-Apostrophe, I think. (I may have that wrong.) Post-Apostrophe, there is enough on Joe's Garage to recommend as well.

[Quincy]

And the live '74. And live on stage in Nov. '81 where he was shutting up & playing his guitar w/ Steve Vai. Ah memories.... Burnt Weeny may be my favorite album but mercy mercy he (actually "they" but I'm talking about Frank) had sinister chops when I saw him. I also have a soft spot for the the anti-fundi sides 3 & 4 of You Are What You Is. I really needed to hear that then. Oh damn it's another Frank across the ages thread...

[Hot Ptah]

I think he hit his peak in the '68 - '71 timeframe. From Uncle Meat through Fillmore East, there was a consistent level of inspired creativity. Then came his fall from the stage, and, except for little glimmers along the way, he kinda lost it. Maybe it was the hospital bills and the demands of feeding a large family...who knows. But from Over-Nite Sensation and Apostrophe onward, it was all downhill.

I can't agree with that. There were many pleasures and high points after 1971, including much uncompromised music of very high quality. Grand Wazoo and Waka Jawaka are to me, the absolute high points of all of Zappa's instrumental music. Bongo Fury and Zoot Allures have some outstanding blues oriented tracks, and scorching solos. Roxy and Elsewhere and One Size Fits All have some great jazz oriented playing. Make a Jazz Noise Here, from the 1988 tour, contains some of my favorite Zappa instrumental work ever. There are many excellent songs, some with pointed social and political commentary, on the albums of the 1980s.

After 1971, his output became massive and varied, and there could be parts of it that one does not like as well, often within the same album as the high points or one's favorite tracks. But there was a lot more of value than "little glimmers", to me.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Hot Ptah

[Hot Ptah]

A live recording with Archie Shepp and Zappa appears on one of the volumes of Zappa's "You Can't Do That Onstage Anymore". It is all right. Shepp plays a rather inside solo over the group's steady backing. It is not all that remarkable. It is not like there was some great synthesis of the musical backgrounds of Zappa and Shepp. It's just a blowing tune.

[clifford_thornton]

Huh.

I know they played together at Amougies in 1969 as well, and the review I have of that show was that it wasn't all that... yet curious I remain.

[7/4]

yr just upgrading to the mono, right!

hahahahahaha!!!!

No, it's because.... (dirty little secret)... I bought the album this past weekend, thinking that maybe, just maybe, I'd finally GET Zappa after trying numerous times. Turns out I was wrong, but I'll save that rant for another day (or FaceBook).

It's not the place I suggest starting!

[Chuck Nessa]

It's the "start" Frank gave us.

[7/4]

I know you're not a fan Chuck...I didn't get any exposure to Zappa until much later because of his age.

[Chuck Nessa]

I was just pointing out this was his commercial starting point - nothing else intended.

[7/4]

ok.

[Teasing the Korean]

Mono rules.

[Chuck Nessa]

Time to state the mono rules -

[MomsMobley]

CT-- I'm surprised! For 'rock,' find a copy of the posthumous "Imaginary Diseases"; if you ever liked anything about "blues," "rock" and "loud guitar"... it's THERE.

But I am also convinced Zappa is ** always ** best considered a composer, which, to me, most of the "free" blowhards should not be, or if they are, it's like fuck...

Alan Silva, for example, is a shitty composer.

Also, Blow Me Gladys Hampton

Also, read Nicholas Slonimsky's accounts of FZ in both the "Baker's Dictionary of Musicians" and NS's autobiography, "Perfect Pitch."

I used to get off the bus when George Duke did but, unless you can't get more complex than the Ramones or Motorhead in 1977...

this is pretty great-- and ridiculous-- but still great--

My link

We can discuss the non-rock composition another time.

Also, CHEWY, I have "Freak Out" and "Absolutely Free" in MONO.

[JSngry]

Freak Out is best understood as a postlude to

http://globalia.net/.../Burt_Ward.html

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=03F4nmPow9M

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=AjoLQbJCPTI

http://globalia.net/.../Burt_Ward.html

I think that "How Could I be Such A Fool" is a perfectly beautiful pop song, and that "Help I'm A Rock" is just....fine. As is.

I pretty much dig Zappa from when he was just cynical. It's when he got bitter that he lost me.

[felser]

I think that "How Could I be Such A Fool" is a perfectly beautiful pop song, and that "Help I'm A Rock" is just....fine. As is.

I pretty much dig Zappa from when he was just cynical. It's when he got bitter that he lost me.

I liked Zappa with the original Mothers group, when he was actually trying to say something. "Trouble Every Day' sums up the received trauma of growing up in the American Suburbs in the 60's pretty well (Blow your harmonica, son!). He lost me with the Flo and Eddie group, which was crude for crudity's sake. I enjoyed the Hot Rats/Waka Jawaka/Grand Wazoo period instrumental stuff also, as well as the original albums up through Chunga's Revenge quite a bit. Incredibly imaginative. I also liked 'Apostrophe', 'One Size Fits All' and 'Bongo Fury' on a much more minor level. The place to start to try to understand when, why, and how Zappa "mattered" is We're Only In It For The Money, his send-up/critique of the 60's counterculture (and more). Then go one album back to Absolutely Free, which takes on their parents. Then go back one more to Freak Out and forward to Uncle Meat for the amazing side-long "King Kong". Then Hot Rats/Waka Jawaka/Grand Wazoo for the instrumental stuff. And if you like Uncle Meat, pick up Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasils Ripped My Flesh, and Chunga's Revenge for more of the same with somewhat diminishing returns each step.

[Hot Ptah]

I think that "How Could I be Such A Fool" is a perfectly beautiful pop song, and that "Help I'm A Rock" is just....fine. As is.

I pretty much dig Zappa from when he was just cynical. It's when he got bitter that he lost me.

I liked Zappa with the original Mothers group, when he was actually trying to say something. "Trouble Every Day' sums up the received trauma of growing up in the American Suburbs in the 60's pretty well (Blow your harmonica, son!). He lost me with the Flo and Eddie group, which was crude for crudity's sake. I enjoyed the Hot Rats/Waka Jawaka/Grand Wazoo period instrumental stuff also, as well as the original albums up through Chunga's Revenge quite a bit. Incredibly imaginative. I also liked 'Apostrophe', 'One Size Fits All' and 'Bongo Fury' on a much more minor level. The place to start to try to understand when, why, and how Zappa "mattered" is We're Only In It For The Money, his send-up/critique of the 60's counterculture (and more). Then go one album back to Absolutely Free, which takes on their parents. Then go back one more to Freak Out and forward to Uncle Meat for the amazing side-long "King Kong". Then Hot Rats/Waka Jawaka/Grand Wazoo for the instrumental stuff. And if you like Uncle Meat, pick up Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasils Ripped My Flesh, and Chunga's Revenge for more of the same with somewhat diminishing returns each step.

"Make A Jazz Noise Here", from the big band 1988 tour, should not be overlooked for its improvisations and jazz content.

I find each album after 1976 to have some pleasures, often some great things, and then to also have what I consider filler. But his post-1976 output should not be dismissed out of hand, in my opinion.

[clifford_thornton]

CT-- I'm surprised! For 'rock,' find a copy of the posthumous "Imaginary Diseases"; if you ever liked anything about "blues," "rock" and "loud guitar"... it's THERE.

But I am also convinced Zappa is ** always ** best considered a composer, which, to me, most of the "free" blowhards should not be, or if they are, it's like fuck...

Alan Silva, for example, is a shitty composer.

Also, Blow Me Gladys Hampton

Also, read Nicholas Slonimsky's accounts of FZ in both the "Baker's Dictionary of Musicians" and NS's autobiography, "Perfect Pitch."

I used to get off the bus when George Duke did but, unless you can't get more complex than the Ramones or Motorhead in 1977...

this is pretty great-- and ridiculous-- but still great--

My link

We can discuss the non-rock composition another time.

Also, CHEWY, I have "Freak Out" and "Absolutely Free" in MONO.

From the Zappa I've listened to - which isn't a lot, but some - I get the impression that he was trying too hard to be "weird," "difficult," or "quirky." It's the difference between your average CRI LP (not counting the Feldman, Partch, etc. titles) and, say, Xenakis. Xenakis didn't have to try!

Of course, I can't fade FZ completely because he was good for foisting more Beefheart on the world, but... as a composer, he's totally uninteresting to me. Alan Silva is sometimes quite interesting (not always). I'm not comparing the two, really, but you get my drift. I was merely stating that I was curious to hear Zappa the guitarist (who's decent) in the historical context of the Actuel festival.

Edited August 12, 2010 by clifford_thornton

[Hot Ptah]

CT-- I'm surprised! For 'rock,' find a copy of the posthumous "Imaginary Diseases"; if you ever liked anything about "blues," "rock" and "loud guitar"... it's THERE.

But I am also convinced Zappa is ** always ** best considered a composer, which, to me, most of the "free" blowhards should not be, or if they are, it's like fuck...

Alan Silva, for example, is a shitty composer.

Also, Blow Me Gladys Hampton

Also, read Nicholas Slonimsky's accounts of FZ in both the "Baker's Dictionary of Musicians" and NS's autobiography, "Perfect Pitch."

I used to get off the bus when George Duke did but, unless you can't get more complex than the Ramones or Motorhead in 1977...

this is pretty great-- and ridiculous-- but still great--

My link

We can discuss the non-rock composition another time.

Also, CHEWY, I have "Freak Out" and "Absolutely Free" in MONO.

From the Zappa I've listened to - which isn't a lot, but some - I get the impression that he was trying too hard to be "weird," "difficult," or "quirky." It's the difference between your average CRI LP (not counting the Feldman, Partch, etc. titles) and, say, Xenakis. Xenakis didn't have to try!

Of course, I can't fade FZ completely because he was good for foisting more Beefheart on the world, but... as a composer, he's totally uninteresting to me. Alan Silva is sometimes quite interesting (not always). I'm not comparing the two, really, but you get my drift. I was merely stating that I was curious to hear Zappa the guitarist (who's decent) in the historical context of the Actuel festival.

You may not have heard enough of his output, based on your comments.