Teasing the Korean Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Generally speaking, I prefer listening to jazz on LP and in mono. That said, some of the best and most natural sounding jazz stereo recordings I've heard are some of the early ones on Atlantic. Everybody's in the same room (of course), and it doesn't sound like any attempt is made to prevent bleeding from one channel to the other. The end result is a very natural, ambient stereo room sound that enhances the groove rather than distracting from it. You really feel like you're right in the room with these guys. These sessions must have been recorded on 2 track or at the most three. A couple of examples off the top of my head include some of the early Mose Allison Atlantic albums and "Soul Meeting" by Ray Charles and Milt Jackson. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthsj Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Generally speaking, I prefer listening to jazz on LP and in mono. That said, some of the best and most natural sounding jazz stereo recordings I've heard are some of the early ones on Atlantic. Everybody's in the same room (of course), and it doesn't sound like any attempt is made to prevent bleeding from one channel to the other. The end result is a very natural, ambient stereo room sound that enhances the groove rather than distracting from it. You really feel like you're right in the room with these guys. These sessions must have been recorded on 2 track or at the most three. A couple of examples off the top of my head include some of the early Mose Allison Atlantic albums and "Soul Meeting" by Ray Charles and Milt Jackson. Thoughts? First, many of these early Atlanic stereo recordings were entirely different takes .. for instance the stereo version of the MJQ's FONTESSA "B" side. Not too many so-called discographical experts seem to acknowledge these different takes ... Second, not all of these stereo recordings were sonicially as sound as you seem to feel ... I tried for years to get a stereo copy of one of my favorite early Atlantics, Milt Jackson's PLENTY, PLENTY SOUL... and when I finally did I was very disappointed to discover that some of the musicians actually sound as if they are in a different room entirely ... listen, for instance, to Cannonball Adderley's solos (he is named as "Ronnie Peters" on the album) ... The CD release was thankfully the original mono version.. This album deserves to be remastered, but I guess that the original tapes succumbed in the infamous Atlantic fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I'm not a big fan of the late 50s-early 60s Atlantic stereos. Many of the ones I've heard have a sonic hole in the middle. Soundstage is minimal, if non-existent. That is especially evident on Coltrane's albums. I prefer my Atlantics served in mono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 You must've heard different stereo releases than the ones I have. The ones I'm referreing to exhibit the opposite of the hole in the middle - there's so much bleedover you can't tell what is in what speaker unless you really make a project of it. I prefer this kind of stereo to the type utlilized by other labels, in which there is clear line between what's in the middle vs. what's in either speaker; which to me sounds and feels more contrived. This is simply my opinion; others of course will disagree... Hence, my preference in general for MONO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 You must've heard different stereo releases than the ones I have. The ones I'm referreing to exhibit the opposite of the hole in the middle - there's so much bleedover you can't tell what is in what speaker unless you really make a project of it. I prefer this kind of stereo to the type utlilized by other labels, in which there is clear line between what's in the middle vs. what's in either speaker; which to me sounds and feels more contrived. This is simply my opinion; others of course will disagree... Hence, my preference in general for MONO! Which releases are you listening to? My (limited) experience has been more in concert with the other posters on this thread: crazy separation with a big old hole in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 You must've heard different stereo releases than the ones I have. The ones I'm referreing to exhibit the opposite of the hole in the middle - there's so much bleedover you can't tell what is in what speaker unless you really make a project of it. I prefer this kind of stereo to the type utlilized by other labels, in which there is clear line between what's in the middle vs. what's in either speaker; which to me sounds and feels more contrived. This is simply my opinion; others of course will disagree... Hence, my preference in general for MONO! Which releases are you listening to? My (limited) experience has been more in concert with the other posters on this thread: crazy separation with a big old hole in the middle. Please see second-to-last paragraph of first post in this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerein Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 These so called early stereo recording by Atlantic are binaural recordings (so not 2 or 3 track). This means a recording head at an angle on the tape to obtain this "stereo". It didn't work that good because there are loads of azymuth and tape wow and flutter problems. In English they sound like sh•ªt. Maybe the ones you are listening to are later recording which are real stereo and 2 track but I don't know this for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) The examples given by Teasing the Korean are sessions from 1962 and later, which I wouldn't call early stereo recordings. Maybe the recordings Reinier means are the more experimental stereo recordings from the mid 50's, like the 1955 live session in the Tristano/Konitz/Marsh box set, where the stereo effect seems rather diffuse. One of the greatest sounding early stereo Atlantic sessions is "Modern Jazz Quartet at the Music Inn, Vol. 2" from 1958. But there are other sessions with Coltrane, Mingus or the MJQ which don't sound nearly as good, what could also be due the the condition of the master tape. Edited November 20, 2006 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I've always hated the separation on the stereo CD of the Monk/Blakey Atlantic date, I always play the CD with the mono botton depressed !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 The examples given by Teasing the Korean are sessions from 1962 and later, which I wouldn't call early stereo recordings. Yes, maybe my use of the word "early" threw people off, sorry. I meant "early" in a more general sense, inasmuch as mono was still the dominant format when these were recorded. I don't like the extreme separation others have mentioned either, which is one of the reasons I seek out mono albums. Either way, the ambient room sounds on the examples I cited sound great to me, at least on my stereo in the room I'm listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I've always hated the separation on the stereo CD of the Monk/Blakey Atlantic date, I always play the CD with the mono botton depressed !! That session is one of the worst examples for binaural recordings ever: piano on one channel, the rest of the band on the other! The latest CD reissue remedied this, fortunately. I would love to have reissues of those early RVG sessions, no matter for what label,and Atlantics in mono - they should sound great. OTOH there were some 1954 (!) stereo recordings by Cal Tjader for Fantasy that sound terrific and have a perfect soundstage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Ironically, the extreme sepation between channels became much more the rule than the exception; it was just that producers/engineers soon had many more tracks to utilize and consequently could spread things out to create an illusion of true stereo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Can't say I was ever impressed by the sound of the Atlantic releases, mono or stereo. The imaging on many of their stereo albums (Freddie Hubbard, Roland Kirk among others) seemed overdone and the audio range sounded as it had been tempered with! Atlantic did much better with their cover designs (specially when Lee Friedlander was taking care of most of those!). As for audio, I'ld rather listen to the sound that Roy DuNann achieved at Contemporary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BB) Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Can't say I was ever impressed by the sound of the Atlantic releases, mono or stereo. The imaging on many of their stereo albums (Freddie Hubbard, Roland Kirk among others) seemed overdone and the audio range sounded as it had been tempered with! Atlantic did much better with their cover designs (specially when Lee Friedlander was taking care of most of those!). As for audio, I'ld rather listen to the sound that Roy DuNann achieved at Contemporary! Sad to say this has been my experience too. Unfortunately I enjoy a lot of the music on those late 50’s early 60’s Atlantic sides. Ironically I have been happiest with the Jazzlore re-issues, which can usually be picked up for very reasonable prices. So you just slide the Jazzlore vinyl in a vintage sleeve and you have the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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