larry coryel - live at the village gate

[donald byrd 4 EVA]

got this one from my buddy. had a drunken debate with chewz bout it and the mahavishnu orchestra.... any one here have any thoughts about him?

[Guy Berger]

Was Coryell the first jazz guitarist to bring 60s rock influences into the mix? (Not sure how he fits in chronologically with Gabor Szabo and Jerry Hahn.)

I don't think I've ever heard the guy!

re: the Mahavishnu debate, there's a well-known quote from Coryell who upon seeing John McLaughlin with the Tony Williams Lifetime, turned to his wife Julie and said "This is the best guitarist I've heard in my life!"

Didn't Coryell also get into a cutting contest with Jimi Hendrix once? (With unfortunate results for Larry.) I think I read that in Stuart Nicholson's Jazz Rock book.

Anyway, not my intent to diss Coryell who I am sure is a fine player. Those are just the stories I remember about him.

Guy

Edited May 30, 2007 by Guy

[donald byrd 4 EVA]

those are good stories. coryell is a good player for sure, but not a great. but the album is funky...

[BFrank]

got this one from my buddy. had a drunken debate with chewz bout it and the mahavishnu orchestra.... any one here have any thoughts about him?

I always liked that album. Is out on CD? Very rough, but a great "live" feel to it. I was impressed that he covered a Jack Bruce tune. I also like the way he introduced "Entardecendo en Sau-DADE".

I've liked Larry off and on for many years. His early fusion stuff was pretty good - "Barefoot Boy" maybe the best of the bunch (not even really "fusion").

"Equipoise" is a nice, more low-key album with Stanley Cowell, Billy Hart & Buster Williams from 1985.

A fairly recent album - "Tricycles" - with Paul Wertico & Mark Egan is a strong date, too.

[BFrank]

... and of course, "Spaces" is a classic by any means.

[Aggie87]

I don't know if he's "great" or not, but still a fine player.

Tributaries is a nice acoustic '78 guitar session with Scofield and Joe Beck. Another I like alot is his "Bolero/Scheherezade", a solo guitar recording, which is difficult to find.

I agree with BF's recommendation of the more recent "Tricycles", as well as "Electric", with Victor Bailey and Lenny White. The latter has a number of covers - So What and Footprints, alongside Sex Machine, Black Dog, and Born Under a Bad Sign.

One other recent recommendation is "Three Guitars", another acoustic session with John Abercrombie and Badi Assad.

[sal]

... and of course, "Spaces" is a classic by any means.

Without a doubt!

I don't own more than 2 of his recordings, but I've seen him perform live a few times and he's a fine player.

[GA Russell]

I believe that Coryell deserves to be in the Downbeat Hall of Fame.

He was the first to combine jazz with rock with his group The Free Spirits, whose album Out of Sight and Sound (ABC 593) was produced by Bob Thiele, engineered by Rudy Van Gelder, and had liner notes by Nat Hentoff. I have the LP in my hand, and I don't see a date, but I'm pretty sure it was recorded in 1965 or '66 at the latest. Bob Moses was the group's drummer.

From there, Coryell went on to Chico Hamilton's group, and then recorded with Gary Burton. He was on the cover of the first Downbeat I ever purchased, in the summer of '67.

I don't think any of his albums I have are perfect, but I recommend Offering on Vanguard as well as Barefoot Boy on Flying Dutchman. Both feature Steve Marcus.

I also strongly recommend the Marcus album he is on called Count's Rock Band.

[jazzypaul]

I love how the Burton/Coryell albums are somewhat of a footnote, because they deserve SO MUCH BETTER. Those records are freakin' cool. And, unfortunately, out of print and almost completely unavailable in this hemisphere.

Now that Sony and BMG have merged, I think they could easily put out an "essential Gary Burton" two disc set of the four albums that they did together (they'd easily fit on two CD's), and hopefully turn on a whole bunch of people onto some forgotten gems.

As for the Larry Coryell at the Village Gate disc, it's pretty cool. Not in any sort of best of list, but a good record to pull out every once in a while for sure.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, those Burton sides are really nice. I should buy those back sometime...

Coryell's also on the JCOA silver box, given room to spazz out hard-core!

[Guy Berger]

... and of course, "Spaces" is a classic by any means.

This has been on my to-buy list for a loooooooooong time.

Guy

[7/4]

... and of course, "Spaces" is a classic by any means.

This has been on my to-buy list for a loooooooooong time.

Guy

It's worth having.

[donald byrd 4 EVA]

[Roger Farbey]

Well I would go as far as to say 'great' but very underestimated. Larry is a really talented guitarist who can play superbly in a number of different contexts not just jazz rock and fusion. He played acoustic guitar duets and trios with McLaughlin and has recorded with people as diverse as Stephane Grappelli, Charles Mingus and Michael Mantler. He may not be as well known as McLaughlin and say, Allan Holdsworth, but he is a superb guitarist. One example is on a non-jazz album, just given a limited re-issue on CD, 'Playback' by Appletree Theatre. He plays electric guitar on this and although there are not many guitar solos when they do happen the whole thing just lights up. Jim Pepper used Coryell on Pepper's Pow Wow for much the same reasons I believe.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Roger Farbey

[BFrank]

... and of course, "Spaces" is a classic by any means.

This has been on my to-buy list for a loooooooooong time.

Guy

It's worth having.

How's the CD master, BTW? I only have my vinyl original.

Should probably upgrade one of these days.

[Guest donald petersen]

i don't think spaces is very good. too much of vitous bass up front. sort of boring and uneven besdies the version of that wrong is right tune or whatever it is called.

offering is a cool album. barefoot boy is good and it is nice to hear roy haynes rock out, though he does take an overlong drum solo on the last track.

lady coryell is a cool album and has him jamming with elvin jones and jimmy garrison on a few tracks and the other trackes have some shorter tunes which show him experimenting with the rock thiing and multi-tracked guitars and stuff.

the album coryell is pretty cool and has chuck rainey and pretty purdie on it. more rock-ish i guess but some good tunes.

fairyland is probably the best-a live trio with rainey and purdie-but it's not on CD.

conventional wisdom will tell you to get spaces, but i think any of these other albums would be a better choice, imo. some of them have singing and are really more rock than jazz if you care.

the live at the village gate one is cool-that jack bruce song is kind of long and boring, IMO. i wonder what happened to harry wilkinson.

the real great escape is good bad music. i would play it if i had to take a car ride with my dad, for instance. not much jazz. sort of pop-ish rock. but some good tunes ever now and then.

if you like oregon, that collaborative album is good. but i think it is boring since i am not an oregon fan. but still-it has merit.

coryell is on one of those mike mantler moves albums, maybe even with tony williams on it. but it isn't particularly good.

[felser]

I don't think any of his albums I have are perfect, but I recommend Offering on Vanguard as well as Barefoot Boy on Flying Dutchman. Both feature Steve Marcus.

I totally agree with that assessment, also with the assessment that Coryell is a good but not great guitarist. There's a 2CD overview on Vanguard which is probably the best place to start. 'Spaces' is wildly overrated because of the personnel, is much less than the sum of the parts. The Free Spirits stuff is, truth be told, patently awful in it's own visionary way. Coryell's recordings have much more historic and nostalgic value for me than musical value. They don't hold a candle to the McLaughlin/Mahvishnu recordings of the same era. The McLaughlin solo albums 'Extrapolation', 'My Goals Beond' and 'Devotion', and the Mavishnu albums 'The Inner Mounting Flame', 'Birds of Fire', 'Between Nothingness and Eternity', 'Lost Trident Sessions' and 'Apocalypse' (to me, the greatest, best integrated Third Stream album ever done) all range between excellent and fantastic, plus McLaughlin did amazing sideman work with Miles Davis and Tony Williams( 'In a Silent Way','Bitches Brew','Jack Johnson','Emergency') and had that 'Love Devotion Surrender' album with Santana (I really like it - I know opinions are divided). All between 1969 and 1974. An amazing run. Unfortunately, he's sort of been coasting for 33 years since then ('Shakti' and 'Tokyo Live' being the exceptions to my ears).

[Guest donald petersen]

oh yeah, the introducing the 11th house album has randy brecker and a random session bassist and alphonse mouzon hyped up so you can imagine. very overrated historically. almost everything is too fast to be enjoyable.

other 11th house stuff is even worse. the live vanguard 11th house album is overrated by a long shot.

if you find live recordings, they will serve you better. some are good. but it turned into the kind of stuff john lee and gerry brown were doing in the mid 70s, which gives me a headache.

felsoiss is right that spaces is overrated which i also said. it is actually kind of boring. as is some of that gary burton stuff, but you just need to look deeper with some of the burton stuff and you can respect and enjoy it. felsoiss is also right that some of the early stuff is pretty brutal.

i would still maintain checking out fairyland and offering and lady coryell and barefoot boy is a good strategy. and also coryell if one was inclined to some bad vocals and rocking out.

i love the concept of barefoot boy (more musicians joining in as the album goes on) but that last song can sound really melodramatic and cheesy.

i am always interested in coryell's keyboarist mike mandel. he played some weird stuff. and he was blind! i bet chewy and friends would enjoy his smooth 70s albums as a leader where he covered steely dan and played decent whitefusionfunk. and i still wonder what happened to harry wilkinson, his drummer. i think jsangrey might have played with coryell's bassist, mervin bronson, who has an interesting discography (including charlie earland).

[Guest donald petersen]

ah i see also ga russell said to check out offering and barefoot boy first. it is a good idea. listen to him. he and felser know this music.

[felser]

i think jsangrey might have played with coryell's bassist, mervin bronson, who has an interesting discography (including charlie earland).

Hard to imagine Earland every wanting/needing a bassist. He was "The Mighty Burner" because of his amazing bass pedal work!

[Guy Berger]

Classic photo:

[BFrank]

I'll still say that "Spaces" is a classic. Maybe you had to be around when it came out. It seemed unique at the time.

Also, you can't really compare Coryell with McLaughlin other than they were both experimenting with electronics at the same time. Their styles are totally different, though.

I do agree that "Offering" is a solid date.

[felser]

I'll still say that "Spaces" is a classic. Maybe you had to be around when it came out. It seemed unique at the time.

Also, you can't really compare Coryell with McLaughlin other than they were both experimenting with electronics at the same time. Their styles are totally different, though.

I do agree that "Offering" is a solid date.

I was around when 'Spaces' came out. I don't dislike it, just have never really thought it lived up to the personnel and the praise. You hit on the point with much of Coryell's early work - historical significance. He did some things real early that others came along a little later and did much better. That's why I mentioned that his historical significance outweighed his musical significance. Coryell and McLaughlin have different individual styles, but were nonetheless plowing in different sections of the same field - I don't think it's unreasonable at all to compare them, and after all, doesn't 'Spaces' beg comparison between the two? Glad we agree on 'Offering'.

Edited June 3, 2007 by felser

[BFrank]

I'll still say that "Spaces" is a classic. Maybe you had to be around when it came out. It seemed unique at the time.

Also, you can't really compare Coryell with McLaughlin other than they were both experimenting with electronics at the same time. Their styles are totally different, though.

I do agree that "Offering" is a solid date.

I was around when 'Spaces' came out. I don't dislike it, just have never really thought it lived up to the personnel and the praise. You hit on the point with much of Coryell's early work - historical significance. He did some things real early that others came along a little later and did much better. That's why I mentioned that his historical significance outweighed his musical significance. Coryell and McLaughlin have different individual styles, but were nonetheless plowing in different sections of the same field - I don't think it's unreasonable at all to compare them, and after all, doesn't 'Spaces' beg comparison between the two? Glad we agree on 'Offering'.

I believe that both "Spaces" & "Extrapolation" were recorded in 1969 and definitely have a similar feel. After that, I think that the two guitarists went in different directions - electrically. I would say that Coryell embraced a more blues-based rock feel while McLaughlin searched for the spiritual explorations of Coltrane. Also, I don't think Larry was as obsessed with finger speed as was John and others (like Al DiMeola and Allan Holdsworth).