More Ebay Trouble

[Dan Gould]

Its probably not going to be too much of a problem because the seller has promised a refund and has a high feedback rating, but I wanted to inquire on two separate isssues, one for vinyl-heads and one for ebay users in general.

This seller claimed to grade "visually based on Goldmine standards" and he applied the rating "EXC+" to the vinyl and "EXC" to the jacket. When I received the record and saw that two of the corners were severely creased and turned up and that the record itself had an inordinate number of feel-able marks, I figured it was time to do a little quick research. What I found was that "EXC" is not a recognized Goldmine rating, but that it has come into increased use to basically describe super nice LPs that don't quite fall into the "NM" category.

The seller has responded by insisting that "EXC" is a Goldmine rating.

Second question is more in general for any Ebay user. If you are the winning bidder and make payment immediately without waiting for an invoice or a request from the seller, do you expect the seller to acknowledge your winning bid and quick payment with a message of thanks?

Maybe its just me but I find more and more ebay sellers who do not acknowledge or express appreciation for the buyers who make their businesses successful. Not only is it rude but it leaves the buyer in the dark about the transaction. The seller may be out of town for all you know and who knows when he will ship?

I got off on the wrong foot with this seller by sending a message which said, "while I have not received any acknowledgment or thanks from you for my immediate payment on this purchase, I assume that you are adhering to your stated policy of shipping withing two days". And to that I got an obnoxious message saying that he didn't understand the point of my communication and why wouldn't he be shipping it on time?

Maybe this is how Ebay has evolved but once upon a time, sellers were more likely than not to actually say "thank you" for buying their crap. And get this: the seller's policy says that "negative feedback voids the guarantee". We'll see if it voids the guarantee after the refund is given.

[Van Basten II]

I have not bought on Ebay in a while, but when i do i generally pay as soon as possible and i don't remember a seller telling me anything and even less thanking me. However some of them do mention it on the feedback but that is all.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Van Basten II

[Stereojack]

Every seller has his own practices. It sounds like this dealer has got an attitude problem. I always acknowledge payment with a thank you and I inform the buyer as to when the item will be shipped. Some buyers can get a little antsy - it's understandable, I guess - but I believe the seller should try to maintain a little decorum.

As for the feedback issue, negative feedback should only be given as a last resort. Perhaps the seller is willing to guarantee his merchandise in order to preserve his reputation, but feels once he has received the bad feedback, he is under no obligation to the buyer. Maybe he got a negative in the past without being given the opportunity to make things right. This happened to me (only once) and it pissed me off. If he gives you a refund, he has fulfilled his obligation, even if you think his grading practices are faulty.

[HolyStitt]

It seems that less and less sellers are sending info about receiving payment or when the item is shipped. Myself, I always send an email out thanking the buyer for sending payment & inform them when the item will be shipped but I figure I would want the seller I bought from to do the same for me.

[six string]

Re: the seller's insistance on Exce being a Golmine rating, maybe you could copy Goldmine's page on rating records and ask him where the exce is on that page. For someone to insist on something being true that everyone who knows Goldmine knows it isn't, is a little troubling. I have yet to buy anything on ebay because of all the horror stories I read. It might mean that I don't always get what I want, when I want it, but I have good success from online stores that deal with used lps and they have a little more at stake than Joe Blow working out of his house trying to make a little money on the side. Good luck.

[Dan Gould]

Re: the seller's insistance on Exce being a Golmine rating, maybe you could copy Goldmine's page on rating records and ask him where the exce is on that page. For someone to insist on something being true that everyone who knows Goldmine knows it isn't, is a little troubling.

Here is exactly what he wrote in response to my email:

EXC IS a grade as indicated in the first three issues of Goldmine that I pulled off the shelf (and I am certain many say the same or similar.

EX= VG+:

1) 4th Edition PG 14

2) Goldmine Standard Catalog Of American records PG 12

3) Goldmine Price Guide To Collectible Record Albums 5th Edition PG 28

So, which is it vinyl junkies? Is there an "EXC" according to Goldmine?

[clifford_thornton]

Goldmine or no, it was misgraded. I wouldn't sweat the Goldmine issue at all and just tell him you weren't satisfied. If he's not too big an asshole, he should refund your money.

On the feedback issue, I never ask for it but am happy to receive it. I leave feedback in every instance that was positive, and don't fool with negs save on one totally retarded situation.

[Big Beat Steve]

Interesting debate, especially as you get to hear both sides (buyer and seller).

As a non-U.S. buyer who buys from both US and domestic sources (though far less frequently than I used to), on the whole I find that U.S. sellers tend to be more polite than others (especially those that I figure are private sellers, whereas communication practices of a lot of those high-volume turnover professional "powersellers" leave a lot to be desired).

As for timely payment and non-acknowledgment as well as nonexistent info on shipping having been made (important with overseas shipments), this is one thing that has often bugged me too.

What annoys me in this context is those sellers in particular that insist on leaving feedback ONLY AFTER feedback having been left for them, often even claiming leaving feeback is part of the BUYERS's duties. Come on now! The buyer's duties are to communicate rapidly, provinding the info required to the seller rapidly and paying rapidly and that's that! The moment the buyer has paid up in a timely manner that's the end of his duties in the transaction - whereas the seller's duties obviously include packaging and shipping in a timely manner as well. So the buyer's duties end before (often WELL before) those of the seller, and sellers that have nothing to hide have no reason to refuse leaving feedback as soon as they have received payment (some actually do leave feedback this early) and before sending the goods. Everything else is an attempt at holding the buyer hostage throughout the entire transaction (so the seller can leave retaliatory negative feedback at his whim later on).

I wonder what the stance of other forumists is on this?

At any rate, I've long since given up leaving any feedback at all for any of those sellers who engage in the above practices (except if I am EXCEEDINGLY pleased with the transaction upon reception of the goods). But it seems like feedback is more important to U.S. sellers than to European sellers anyway.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Big Beat Steve

[Daniel A]

Recently I bought a CD from Aebersold's (rather new) eBay business. After a couple of weeks I got an email asking me submit feedback. I responded that I had not recieved the item, that it's not unusual with an overseas shipping time of more than two weeks and that I assumed that I'd gotten an automated message. I received no comment on my response, but when I finally got the CD it turned out it had been posted two weeks after the end of the auction; in fact the day before I got the email...

[Stereojack]

What annoys me in this context is those sellers in particular that insist on leaving feedback ONLY AFTER feedback having been left for them, often even claiming leaving feeback is part of the BUYERS's duties.

As a seller, I used to leave feedback as soon as I had received payment. After a few times when customers busted my balls unreasonably after I had exercised my feedback option, I decided that no feedback should be left until both parties are satisfied. The seller is satisfied when the payment arrives on time, and the buyer is satisfied when the item arrives and is acceptable. I watch my feedback regularly, and when I receive feedback, I know that the customer is satisfied, and so I respond. In the occasional instances when the customer has a problem with the item, I try to resolve the situation without hostility, and I have even received positive feedback from people who requested a refund.

[Dan Gould]

What annoys me in this context is those sellers in particular that insist on leaving feedback ONLY AFTER feedback having been left for them, often even claiming leaving feeback is part of the BUYERS's duties.

As a seller, I used to leave feedback as soon as I had received payment. After a few times when customers busted my balls unreasonably after I had exercised my feedback option, I decided that no feedback should be left until both parties are satisfied. The seller is satisfied when the payment arrives on time, and the buyer is satisfied when the item arrives and is acceptable. I watch my feedback regularly, and when I receive feedback, I know that the customer is satisfied, and so I respond. In the occasional instances when the customer has a problem with the item, I try to resolve the situation without hostility, and I have even received positive feedback from people who requested a refund.

Exactly how it should be. I myself have given positive feedback in the same situation, when I felt that the seller took care of the situation promptly and without rancor. Those are the sellers I want to steer people toward, because they deal with the problem transactions in an above board way.

[jazzhound]

to expect sellers to extend themselves is not realistic. unless you are selling big ticket items, after fees and considering the time involved , most ebay sellers are working for peanuts. to make extra communications to each buyer is just not possible for most sellers trying to make a buck.

[Dan Gould]

to expect sellers to extend themselves is not realistic. unless you are selling big ticket items, after fees and considering the time involved , most ebay sellers are working for peanuts. to make extra communications to each buyer is just not possible for most sellers trying to make a buck.

That is total BS. I've gotten acknowledgment emails from sellers who regularly sell an enormous amount of LPs. They get an email from ebay, it takes two minutes to send a message to the buyer saying "thanks, the record will go out today or tomorrow." Considering all of the automated systems that exist for posting items and creating invoices, the idea that all you can do is ignore people simply excuses rudeness.

[Big Beat Steve]

What annoys me in this context is those sellers in particular that insist on leaving feedback ONLY AFTER feedback having been left for them, often even claiming leaving feeback is part of the BUYERS's duties.

As a seller, I used to leave feedback as soon as I had received payment. After a few times when customers busted my balls unreasonably after I had exercised my feedback option, I decided that no feedback should be left until both parties are satisfied. The seller is satisfied when the payment arrives on time, and the buyer is satisfied when the item arrives and is acceptable. I watch my feedback regularly, and when I receive feedback, I know that the customer is satisfied, and so I respond. In the occasional instances when the customer has a problem with the item, I try to resolve the situation without hostility, and I have even received positive feedback from people who requested a refund.

If there were no sellers who are apt to make use of retaliatory negative feedback (though the buyer has done everything to satisfy by paying lightning fast and making every humanly possible attempt at providing ALL the information as fast as possible) your attitude would be perfectly acceptable. But as it is (sellers using feedback as a weapon against buyers who dare to complain) this attitude is manoeuvering both parties into a dead end. Sad to say this but that's how it is (luckily I've only had to witness this with friends who've been the targets of such action as buyers but that was sad enough).

Remember it is not all that rare for buyers to pay up promptly but then wait endlessly for the goods. No shipping notice from the seller (probably considered unnecessary on the grounds forwarded by jazzhound) and not even any replies to e-mail inquiries about the whereabouts of the goods, and this situation drags on for weeks. Now what are bidders supposed to do under these circumstances? It is not only bidders that may turn out to be deadbeat, it is sellers too! The buyer's only weapon under these circumstances is to leave appropriate feedback. Guess what this kind of seller is bound to do, then, though?

At any rate, it is abusive to claim it is part of the buyer's DUTIES to leave feedback BEFORE the seller leaves feedback.

Just my 2c

[andybleaden]

I always try to leave feedback when I can

Had a recent issue where it went wrong and so I said so ...it backfired and I got tit for tat stuff and paypal also let me down to when I raised the issue

In the end ....i learnt not worry about it

As for you Dan

I would write back and thank them for responding. Say that however I am still not happy and would like a refund and offer to return the item at your own cost etc postage wise

If you still get no joy ask for a reduction

You have then taken some steps to resolve the issue and will appear to be reasonable

As for the declining standards

I understand

Long time ebayer here getting more pissy with it

[Stefan Wood]

I send an email after shipping the item(s), usually the same day or one day after shipping, letting them know I mailed it and thanking them for bidding. As for grading, I am very conservative. Yeah, I do make mistakes, but if anyone has a problem they'll notify me and I'll ask them to ship it back and I refund their money. Thankfully that seldom happens.