Guest Bill Barton Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 A hearty "welcome back" to Joe Christmas! It's been a long time, man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 A hearty "welcome back" to Joe Christmas! It's been a long time, man... Is he here under another name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 A hearty "welcome back" to Joe Christmas! It's been a long time, man... Is he here under another name? He's here under another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 A hearty "welcome back" to Joe Christmas! It's been a long time, man... Is he here under another name? He's here under another thread. Ah OK. Thnks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I remember Joe Christmas--good to see him surface here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Uh oh - flames on a Wynton thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinuta Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Hi Joe Christmas, that's a name from the past. I haven't posted here for ages but it seems I'm another one fed up with goings on at you know where. I hope I can contribute something now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) Good to see you, too, kinuta! Added at 5:53 PM: I just got back from checking out that other board and I must say that what I saw this time makes the exodus understandable. Sure, they have obnoxious, full-of-themselves posters over there--I guess every board has some of them--but what really strikes me is the incredible arrogance and rudeness of the administrators, including the owner, a man whom I have admired and respected until recently. As I have said before, administrators set the tone and these guys obviously side with the most repugnant posters, thus encouraging their offensive behavior. While the site is valuable and should be supported, the forum, IMHO, richly deserves to hit the dust unless reasonable people without personal agendas and hang-ups are found to replace the adversarial crew that has produced the current melt-down. My 2¢ worth, and that's all I have to say about that. Edited February 15, 2008 by Christiern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValerieB Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Lived around. Been in Seattle, Washington since 2000 and pretty happy here. I am a sometime busily working jazz bassist with a day job that I don't care enough about to mention very often. Won't catch me mentioning politics or religion except in the very broadest senses of the terms. I generally tend to be interested in the world and care about people. I'll admit to being somewhat of a narrow listener. I really love hard bop. Mobley, Morgan, Henderson, Dorham, Golson and the gang. As a bassist, I have a connection to the playing of Butch Warren that I can't quite explain and I had a chance to meet him and see him play this year that was very moving to me. Ray Brown, Sam Jones, Oscar Pettiford, Chuck Isreals, Andy Simpkins are some of the many great players I love listening to. I don't think there will ever be a finer jazz musician than Clifford Brown on any instrument. Despite opinions to the contrary, I think Dexter Gordon was a beautiful artist. I can sit and listen to either of those gentlemen for a week and not blink. Mingus continues to inspire me. I also like vocal jazz more than most who are into bop. I do listen to other types of music, especially latin musics; Cuban, Bossa Nova, Tango, etc. I used to live in Miami and hear things that don't know how to categorize. I'd like to know how to play those things better some day. Occasionally I find something like Teddy Charles that expands my horizons and I'm happy about that too. Listening to jazz, playing jazz, knowing the history and musicians and fans is all a very important part of my life. I know a few people, but I don't claim to be anyone of any consequence. I've been happily married since 1993. My lovely wife works for NPR which carries with it some nice perks. I do a lot of reading, worthwhile literature and completely worthless stuff alike. That's a little more than you asked for, but I thought I should reintroduce myself. i was deeply in love until i read the third from the last paragraph!!! seriously, welcome back. your taste is impeccable in music so i'm sure your wife is probably fabulous too!!! best to you, valerie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsandsounds Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Good to see you, too, kinuta! Added at 5:53 PM: I just got back from checking out that other board and I must say that what I saw this time makes the exodus understandable. Sure, they have obnoxious, full-of-themselves posters over there--I guess every board has some of them--but what really strikes me is the incredible arrogance and rudeness of the administrators, including the owner, a man whom I have admired and respected until recently. As I have said before, administrators set the tone and these guys obviously side with the most repugnant posters, thus encouraging their offensive behavior. While the site is valuable and should be supported, the forum, IMHO, richly deserves to hit the dust unless reasonable people without personal agendas and hang-ups are found to replace the adversarial crew that has produced the current melt-down. My 2¢ worth, and that's all I have to say about that. Mike does his best, seriously. Check this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 So who left? UNless its Kelman, I don't have much hope for improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Bluenote82, I think was his handle. A pretty recent "addition" to the community over there. A very abrupt and elbows-up kind of guy. A know-it-all from the get-go. Among other things, he ripped into Damon Smith, an accomplished avant bass player who posts there, on a Wynton Marsalis thread (there's a mouthful). Damon, of course, responded with grace. But I think that may have been the last straw for old bluenote. He'd ripped Michael (WordsandSounds) too, for no reason. Just a rowdy guy. ... He could wash up here, so ... heads up. I think it seems like they are trying to take steps over there to get a grip on things. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeline Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) Remarks about "virtual duct tape" sure aren't helping much, though. I honestly believe that some recent actions and words would be understandable if all the participants were second graders who'd gotten into a playground brawl, but... that's not the case. I wish Marc Meyers were still alive, for all kinds of reasons, the board being a very small part of that... even so. And someone from that board brought the fight over here, to this thread, pretty recently. That was also uncalled-for. Edited February 16, 2008 by seeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Yes, he needed to go--I read his posts today and Damon Smith's graceful response. I did not see any protest against Bluenote82's venom, but at least somebody woke up. Now tell me, how long has Bluenote82 been there? I may be wrong (please correct me, if so), but I don't think he had anything to do with the issues that made this simmering discontent boil over. If I am right, then I don't see how his removal solves the problem. They really need to get rid of that guy from Ottawa--his attitude is very bad for the board and he needs to goose step out of there. Putting him in a off-line position will only work if he really keeps his pixels to himself, which is not likely to happen. Today, when one of the more offensive members wished for "virtual duct tape" today--to silence others on the board--the Ottawa guy seconded that wish. Says a lot, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeline Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) Chris, although i won't join you in your characterization of any of the mods, the "virtual duct tape" thing is (I feel) off the charts. Of course, since the remark was made to me, then seconded by a mod, I'm not exactly without prejudice in the matter. But I do find that (and many other recent remarks) to be appallingly rude and (I kind of hate to use this word; it's so loaded) disrespectful of people who've been supportive of the board and site. Edited February 16, 2008 by seeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Yes, he needed to go--I read his posts today and Damon Smith's graceful response. I did not see any protest against Bluenote82's venom, but at least somebody woke up. Now tell me, how long has Bluenote82 been there? I may be wrong (please correct me, if so), but I don't think he had anything to do with the issues that made this simmering discontent boil over. If I am right, then I don't see how his removal solves the problem. They really need to get rid of that guy from Ottawa--his attitude is very bad for the board and he needs to goose step out of there. Putting him in a off-line position will only work if he really keeps his pixels to himself, which is not likely to happen. Today, when one of the more offensive members wished for "virtual duct tape" today--to silence others on the board--the Ottawa guy seconded that wish. Says a lot, I think. No argument there from me. Bluenote had nothing to do with the earlier exodus, but was more a part of the general shift in overall tone over there, I think. Certain members seemed to get away with direct attacks while others were penalized for nothing of the kind. That, to me, was the problem in a nutshell. Part of that equation is now being addressed, it seems. The other part ... ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeline Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) No argument there from me. Bluenote had nothing to do with the earlier exodus, but was more a part of the general shift in overall tone over there, I think. Certain members seemed to get away with direct attacks while others were penalized for nothing of the kind. That, to me, was the problem in a nutshell. Part of that equation is now being addressed, it seems. The other part ... ?? "The other part" isn't being addressed, as far as I can tell. Edited February 16, 2008 by seeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsandsounds Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 I wish Marc Meyers were still alive, for all kinds of reasons, the board being a very small part of that... even so. I didn't know him very well, but I miss him as well. He was a very zen like influence. BlueNote82 (among a couple of others) hightened tensions to an unnerving degree so everyone reads posts in a more aggressive manner and hence everyone is on everyone else a lot quicker. Hence the tenor of the board many have referenced. The duct tape comment was out of line imo, and to be qouted by the mods with a "yeah that" wasn't a good move. However, seeline, you also know where I stand concerning coming back and trudging things up (albeit usually in defense) rather than just letting the thing die for another day. But that being said, two perosnalities, two ways of handling an issue. Neither are wrong or right per se. Personally I am simply trying to mend things and highlight the issues while avoiding an argument that won't have a satisfacory conclusion for either party. I'm seeing if I can salvage the board that has been my home, but I am finding Org to be a good surrogate even if I do serve more as a lurker than anything else. Now if I can only get a legend map for user names between the two... And thanks for having me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeline Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) wordsandsounds, it would be one thing if Mike had been above-board in his own conduct on this, but - all the personal slams against me (and others, like Onyabirri) have made it an untenable situation. I'm not meaning to muddy the waters - these problems aren't going to go away all by themselves. Talking things through is crucial - sadly, that's the exact opposite of what's been done. Things have been allowed to fester. I have addressed these things in my attempts at correspondence with Mike, but have received no replies, and don't expect to, this late in the game. Marc Meyers was the guiding light - in so many ways, the board at its best was a reflection of what he did, and what he and Mike R. chose to build there. perhaps the material at this link would help explain where I'm coming from - point #7 especially. Truthfully, I have doubts as to whether any of these issues will be resolved. It's a very sad situation, to my way of thinking. Edited February 16, 2008 by seeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 So who left? UNless its Kelman, I don't have much hope for improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 So who left? UNless its Kelman, I don't have much hope for improvement. My god man! I just noticed you have over fifteen thousand posts. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 So who left? UNless its Kelman, I don't have much hope for improvement. My god man! I just noticed you have over fifteen thousand posts. ... And he's not even in first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldB3 Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) Bluenote was one of the reasons I left. I won't name names but there were also a couple others. Oddly enough I never had a personal problem with Kelman, in fact in PM's between us he was always overly nice to me. Words, I hope you can salvage the board but I want you to know I really miss your posts and I hope you can hang out here. And please start blogging again. I am finding the Big O to be kind of like a neighborhood bar where AAJ and Blindman Blues folks come hang out from time to time. To all the regulars thanks for having us. I wish Marc Meyers were still alive, for all kinds of reasons, the board being a very small part of that... even so. I didn't know him very well, but I miss him as well. He was a very zen like influence. BlueNote82 (among a couple of others) hightened tensions to an unnerving degree so everyone reads posts in a more aggressive manner and hence everyone is on everyone else a lot quicker. Hence the tenor of the board many have referenced. The duct tape comment was out of line imo, and to be qouted by the mods with a "yeah that" wasn't a good move. However, seeline, you also know where I stand concerning coming back and trudging things up (albeit usually in defense) rather than just letting the thing die for another day. But that being said, two perosnalities, two ways of handling an issue. Neither are wrong or right per se. Personally I am simply trying to mend things and highlight the issues while avoiding an argument that won't have a satisfacory conclusion for either party. I'm seeing if I can salvage the board that has been my home, but I am finding Org to be a good surrogate even if I do serve more as a lurker than anything else. Now if I can only get a legend map for user names between the two... And thanks for having me. Edited February 16, 2008 by WorldB3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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