AOW November 9-15

[JSngry]

The back...

[JSngry]

The listings for Side One...

[JSngry]

Side Two...

[JSngry]

Sorry for the blurriness. But a cheapo webcam can only do so much, eh?

Anyway, the liner notes read as follows:

"Open Air Suit" was cut and designed for Air as a five piece suit. Whereby from a customed viewpoint Air was considered, however it was conceived as something that Air would have to fit itself up to or rather into.

As a piece each person had to play a hand on the basis of what they had in their hand, secondly on the basis of what was possibly open. Remembering at all times never to photograph one's entire position or game plan prematurely.

One piece out of the suit was omiited(sic) for recording purposes due to the fact that an lp can only hold so much music. However Trummps Room 201 Bed 3 will be forthcoming on our next future recording. I might add that any number of pieces can constitute a hand, first hand or second hand.

Got it?

Actually, it kinda makes sense - seems like he's saying that he wrote five pieces specifically for the album, and that they were pieces that were not written specifically for Air. Also, that the concept of the music was built on group interaction, with it being of the foremost importance to, as the people say, "take your time". The whole card game lingo, though, must be some sort of a private joke or whimsy. Took me a while to figure that out, though, because this was SERIOUS music, and it HAD to have a deeper meaning. Little did I know that Henry was all about FUN!

Also implied is that there might be another piece that didn't make the LP, so when and if this gets a proper CD reissue (yeah, right...), there's probably a bonus cut to be had.

But what the hell is up with those hand signs? The only one I clearly understand is Side Two, Cut Two.

[JSngry]

Shoulda known that the guy's would be up for a grin or two - does THIS look like an "angry avant gardist"?

[couw]

looks more like a guy who just returned from a relaxed fishing trip on an early late summer sunday morning.

[couw]

But what the hell is up with those hand signs? The only one I clearly understand is Side Two, Cut Two.

These aren't references to earlier work at the saw-mills?

[JSngry]

Group photo from the back of X-75 (was a volume II ever really planned?). What's up with the dove? Another "grin" mechanism, it seems!

[JSngry]

But what the hell is up with those hand signs? The only one I clearly understand is Side Two, Cut Two. 

These aren't references to earlier work at the saw-mills?

[Chuck Nessa]

Group photo from the back of X-75 (was a volume II ever really planned?). What's up with the dove? Another "grin" mechanism, it seems!

Someone told me at the time, more material was recorded at the sessions for Vol. 1. I'm not sure there was enough for another lp. Someone else told me the unissued material had major intonation problems courtesy of one of the bass players.

[Joe Christmas]

The whole card game lingo, though, must be some sort of a private joke or whimsy.

Maybe so, but not necessarily. I wonder exactly where they got their inspiration. Cue sheets and graphic or physical instructions/elements were all the rage back then, weren't they? Seems like those extra-musical methods really came into the fore of American jazz-based music around the time Air Time was recorded, though those practices weren’t anything necessarily new. Anybody know if Air did something similar in live performance? I’ve been to numerous concerts where cue cards and the likes are used. Aside from it turning music into somewhat of a spectator sport, when it actually “works” it can be exciting to hear and feel improv brought to new, radical levels.

[JSngry]

Chuck, would you be at liberty to say if that would have been Rufus Reid? Great player, but not the biggest stickler for "proper" intonation...

Edited November 13, 2003 by JSngry

[Chuck Nessa]

Not fair for me to say since I have not heard the tapes.

[JSngry]

Cue sheets and graphic or physical instructions/elements were all the rage back then, weren't they?

To my knowledge, Zorn was the first one to really use those elements in a "jazz" setting, at least as conspicuous elements, visable to the audience, and that came along a few years later. Certainly, though, they had been in use in "New Music", "classical", performances for quite some time, so you may be right. And sure, interpretive graphical notation had come into play in the work of people like Braxton and Cecil (not really graphical, but "cellular"), although that was a "private" matter between composer and performer. Roscoe Mitchell's NOONAH album reprints some of the score, and it's clearly evident that conventional notation, with clear demarcations of bars and such, had ceased to be relevant to this music. So yeah, I'd not rule out the possibility, not at all. I played on some "New Music" cat's senior composition recital back in the day, and one of the things he gave me was a picture of a tree. Nothing more. "Play the tree", was what he told me. O....K... Nice enough concept, but...

I just can't help but feel a bit of whimsy is involved here, though. Threadgill's always been a bit of a card (pun only partially intended) in his song titles, and a phrase like "forthcoming on our next future recording" in the liners seems REALLY sly to me. A title like "The Jick" (street slang for cheap rotgut wine or liquor, if anybody doesn't know) also seems to betray that whimsy. And cards and card playing are part of the same "folk" environment as "jick" (an element that Threadgill drew upon again in "Don't Drink That Corner My Life Is In The Bush")

But you never know - the roots of Air were, as previously noted, in a theatrical setting, and that's as good a venue as any to intrioduce the visual element of cards and such. Could be!

[Joe Christmas]

Yeah, but to cite the area of Zorn's music that incorporates game pieces is to really stretch what you'd call a jazz setting. There are more definitive instances, particularly from European ensembles. Riley's early groups and Globe Unity come to mind. Also, I'm thinking specifically of "cues" rather than graphic notation read from paper, which by now is as legitimate as traditional scoring.

But yeah, one wonders where someone like Threadgill, clearly an intuitive and inventive breed, was coming from. I can't recall reading more than one or two interviews of his and none of them mention this area of interest.

[Chuck Nessa]

Certainly, though, they had been in use in "New Music", "classical", performances for quite some time, so you may be right. And sure, interpretive graphical notation had come into play in the work of people like Braxton and Cecil (not really graphical, but "cellular"), although that was a "private" matter between composer and performer.

Not sure when he started using "cues" etc, but Roscoe Mitchell's 1975 Sackville quartet recording has a version of his composition "Cards".

[JSngry]

Well, Zorn used more than game pieces early on. He used actual cue cards with specific musical instructions, and his ensembles were functioning in somewhat of a "jazz" mode. Don't know if or how well this stuff got documented on recording though, I'm just going by what I read and heard from people who were checking it out at the time. Agreed, though, that it's a stretch to call that "jazz" overall, although he did garner a fair amount of noteriety in the less hidebound jazz press in those days. I'm talking early-mid 80s here, when it seemed that ANY improvisational music was being glommed onto as "jazz" by those who had a reflexive hatred of what was going on with the parallel machinations of Marsalis & Crouch. It was an ugly and confusing time in a lot of ways. Too much ideology and not enough music. On both sides...

Al, the "best" Threadgill interview that I can recall off the top of my head was in, I think, MUSICIAN magazine. It's in my closet somewhere (EVERYTHING in my closet is "somewhere" ), and I don't have the date. But that was a good one. I'd like to see somebody do a really thourough interview with him though, because he's undoubtedly on of the freshest, freest, and just plain FUN creative voices of the last 25-30 years, totally devoid of ideological or other baggage in his music.

To that end, for those who want to hear some slightly "different" Threadgill, a strong rec for the seemingly oft-overlooked SONG OUT OF MY TREES on Black Saint, an album that is in some twisted way the "sequel" to X-75 (and GOD, when is somebody going to get to the Arista/Novus catalog and do right by it?) in that it's not a "band" project, but instead is a collection of compositions for various ensembles with a rotating cast of players. Beautiful stuff.

[Joe G]

Threadgill's Too Much Suger For A Dime is a lot of fun, too.

[brownie]

This week's AOW selected album was like a reunion with old friends.

Excellent opportunity to get reacquainted with Air Time. And some of the other Air albums. Got those when vinyl was still ruling. Damn, the trio was producing exciting music.

Air Time is a marvel that changes directions constantly with the players functioning autonomously to make way for innovative encounters in three-way conversations that turn into landscapes of sounds.

Air created its own unique voice. With sparse instrumentation, they managed to voice colorful cycles of music that reverberates the inspired imagination of the artists involved.

The opening track 'I'll Be Right Here Waiting...' is soulful - just like 'Abra' from the Montreux Suisse (Novus) album, or 'Untitled Tango' from the Why Not (Japan) album. It puts the album in a right groove.

What's on 'Air Time' is challenging and disciplined music that moves in tides and remains constantly adventurous without becoming forbidding. Pretty sure this reflects hundreds of hours of rehearsals and practice.

On many Air sides (like in 'No. 2' here), the music builds gradually to an overpowering climax of inspired musicianship that leaves the listener wanting for more.

All the Air albums I have heard are excellent, this one is the best. Chuck Nessa should take credit for the best production job of all. He and the crew working with him knew how to present Air's music at its best.

[Gary]

Theres not alot i can add to the thread except that i've only had the CD since it was nominated for AOW & ever since the first listen it immediately hit the nail on the head for me .

the 2 biggest highlights for me (there no lowlights) are 'I'll be right here waiting' its just beautiful. And Fred Hopkins bass playing - its breath taking.

A great choice for CD of the week .

Edited November 14, 2003 by Gary

[.:.impossible]

Now that we're approaching the end of the week, I wanted to thank everyone who posted their thoughts on this album. As usual, some interesting tangents were explored, which is what makes discussions like this so wonderful.

Chuck, I was hoping you might offer some recollections of the session and your impression on some of the thoughts presented here.

Where do you think this recording fits into AIR's discography? Where do you think this recording fits into the NESSA catalog? The personality of Henry Threadgill was touched on earlier in the discussion, and we know that Steve McCall payed much attention to the tuning of his drum kit, but not much has been said about Fred Hopkins. Could you maybe talk about your memories of Fred Hopkins? He was such a powerful bassist. What was HE like?

Thanks again to everyone. Thanks again to Chuck.

edit: Thanks David.

Edited November 14, 2003 by impossible

[Lazaro Vega]

I can't think of another more ensemble oriented saxophone/bass/drums trio ever recorded up to this point in jazz history.

The high water mark of the instrumentation, of course, being the great Sonny Rollins trio, yet for all of Rollins group interactivity, this band at this (Air) time took it to another level, and perhaps documented themselves living the principals of the AACM as never again.

Sure, soloistically there is Threadgill's tonal-timbre extension/phrase-distillation/rhythm-deconstruction of Rollins in the slowly building crescendo that is "Keep Right On Playing Through The Mirror Over the Water," but the South Side meets Elliot Carter's string quartets that is "Subtraction" is orchestrated to a balancing point of mobile like sounds; poetically, if I may, touched into motion by Michigan avenue exhausts and Lake Michigan breezes. (Smart ass thing to say, but maybe the influences played out in this number go even further than the totality of black music and the Eastern micro-tones found in Threadgill's flute or Hopkins zither/bass on "GvE": there is an awareness of contemporary classical music occurring as a series of scored/improvised events, and moreover, the sound world has the quality of a chamber dirge).

The hubkaphone IS silly: no more so than Threadgill's selling DeWars whiskey, though. Threadgill's strange wit narrative -- "Salute to the Enema Bandit" et. al. -- is abstracted in music on this Air date, whereas the trickster emerges graphically/linguistically soon after, as Jim has pointed out, which begins to play wit yo head. On Air Time it's still in the ears. This, to me, is the most "serious" of Air's recordings (and the first documentation of the band by an American company). If you're going to start somewhere, you might as well start smart (fucking 'crossover' is a mentally sick concept).

Maybe McCall's sonorous weight in this music is what keeps Threadgill's clowns in the car. Chuck took me to the bar at the Blackstone Hotel, not the Jazz Showcase, but the bar along Michigan avenue, and McCall was there, holding court at a table of friends and family, just having flew back from his life in Europe. Chuck introduced us, and McCall was gracious as royalty. I had the good fortune of seeing McCall play a festival set in duet with Fred Anderson and it is without a doubt one of the highlights of listening to him play that he saw me in the crowd, looking under a cymbal, and played a few phrases looking right at me, smiled, and went back into his dialogue.

His performance on Air Time, again, shows the world of free jazz drummers, Sonny Murray, Rashid Ali and those investigating the most radical changes in drums set concept since Kenny Clarke, are a vital and important part of the evolution of jazz. Not a forgotten, unheard tangent: don't buy that shit. I heard McCall's importance and I'm from VanderGrandRapidsMa, the land of Gerald Ford and John Calvin: if that can get to me, then you're very wrong about this music being unknown or unknowable. It's a matter of exposure, and the way things are going, well, they're locking up Tommy Chong now, that's how far they'll take it for you to forget all about the '60's and 70's.

Because this is not sanitized, genetically engineered music it doesn't fit the sophistication of commerce. Yet it hails American know how, it responds to the creativity of it's forebears with the most flattering form of music appreciation: creative extension, not mere imitation.

Hopkins is the extension of bass legacy that includes Israel Crosby, Wilbur Ware, Malachi...Chicago. How can we say, like Kerouac, OLD Chicago and mean the 1960's and 70's? Old is Nelson Algren old, it's King Oliver old, black migration old, Chi-Fire old. Old Air? Can it be...

I remember sitting in a telecommunications class at Michigan State (300 students in one room) reading one of Kim Heron's articles about Air in one of the Detroit papers, when the professor condescendingly challenged the class to identify Bix Biederbecke, but then skipped on to his next point before I could call him on it, talk about the bridge to Stardust or something, or then challenge him to id the ragtime playing free jazz trio of the present. An early 1980's "it's all good moment" that went by way of egos in a survey class.

The point is, Bix Lives. Air Lives. So suddenly.

Edited November 17, 2003 by Lazaro Vega

[Chuck Nessa]

Chuck, I was hoping you might offer some recollections of the session and your impression on some of the thoughts presented here.

Where do you think this recording fits into AIR's discography? Where do you think this recording fits into the NESSA catalog? The personality of Henry Threadgill was touched on earlier in the discussion, and we know that Steve McCall payed much attention to the tuning of his drum kit, but not much has been said about Fred Hopkins. Could you maybe talk about your memories of Fred Hopkins? He was such a powerful bassist. What was HE like?

Thanks again to everyone. Thanks again to Chuck.

edit: Thanks David.

I had been talking with the guys about making a record since I returned to Chicago in 1975. First thing I recorded upon my return was a session with Von Freeman. After mixing the first lp from this date I went to Terry Martin's apartment to give him a copy so he could do the liner notes. While there Henry called to see if Terry could make a tape copy of their first date(Air had just done their first date for Why Not and needed individual copies for all members). Henry and Steve arrived a few minutes later and we listened to the wonderful Why Not date as the copies were made. As soon as that was done they wanted to listen to my Von tapes and Steve and Henry laughed in glee throughout the playing. Henry next played as part of a saxophone quartet (Roscoe, Jarman, Wallace McMillan & Henry) for Roscoe's Nonaah project. Suddenly late in '77 Henry called to say they were about to sign a 3 record deal with Arista/Novus and if I wanted to do a date it had to be soon. I borrowed some money and we did the date. They spent about a month in rehearsal for the sessions. We recorded on two successive nights and made sure nothing was touched in the studio between the dates.

The most difficult to record was I'll Be Right Here Waiting... Over the two nights we made 7 incomplete takes and 4 complete. Steve kept stopping takes when it didn't feel right to him. The issued version was the last recording from the second night. I just checked the tape logs and was surprised to note that Keep Right On Playing was done in one take with no false starts. Damn!

The band had the record sequence decided before the session. When they were ready to start a tune Henry would say something like "This will be the first track on the second side".

Fred Hopkins was a very warm "down home" guy. The world is poorer for his absence. Don't know what else to say. I am very pleased with the way we were able to reproduce his sound on the date. This was achieved by recording it acoustically on one channel and taking a feed from his pickup directly to the board. We then mixed the two channels together for the stereo master.

I decline rating the record against their other sides...They are all worthwhile. Concerning "how it fits in the Nessa catalog" - it is number 12. B)

Edited November 16, 2003 by Chuck Nessa

[.:.impossible]

Very cool. Thanks again Chuck. I'm sure there are some wonderful moments in the outtakes. Thanks for everyone's comments on this session.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I've just recently been given ths album by a friend, and am enjoying it immensely. I must admit, 1st time through, I didn't quite 'get' it: maybe just not listening properly. However, from then on in, I've found it endlessly fascinating.

The three players are so clearly musical in everything they do. First time I heard Fred Hopkins - on Don Pullen's 'Warriors', I think - I didn't really like his sound. I must admit, I still find it something of an acquired taste, although I think it works much better in the sparseness of this group than it does in its (slightly!) more conventional rhythm section role on the Pullen album. But WHAT he plays is astonishing.

I agree with lots that's been said above: especially on the merits of the beautiful 'I'll Be Right Here Waiting'.

What I've most enjoyed about listening to this album, though, is hearing a set of sounds and concepts that I've never really heard before. Sure, I've heard AACM stuff, and saxophone/bass/drums instrumentation, etc. - but what I hear here was a completely new approach, and that's a brilliant musical experience to have - so thanks everyone for introducing this music!