BFT#60 Disk 1

[sidewinder]

Thought I would jump the gun slightly starting this one up - for anyone Stateside in particular who is already sick of turkey, cranberry jelly and booze..

Any thoughts welcome - the more the merrier ! There is also a Special Award for anyone who can identify the conection between tracks 1 and 2.

Let 'em rip !

[tkeith]

Most excellent. I'm not big on researching these things (sort of defeats the point), so this is a grip it and rip it attempt. By the way, this was one helluva fun BFT!

Track 1 -- Lots of dissonant horns and a needle drop... nice. Nice bass. This sounds sort of Kenton-ish, but only in its outishness. Arrangement hints of Gil Evans to me. I'll lean Gil, but I have no idea what the recording is. Hmm... maybe George Russell?

Track 2 -- Decidedly 70s sound. Electric bass, which I despise (but still, I'm kind of diggin' the crime jazz feel of the whole tune). Trumpet player I liked, sax player I did not. Sounds like Steve Gadd to me on drums (busy as hell and not playing the music, just DRUMMING. Could be Buddy (on a really tasteful day), but I don't know these players at all. Rob McConnell maybe?

Track 3 -- Now you're talkin'! This is pissing me off... I KNOW this guy! Reminds me of Zoot, but more smooth. Gahd-damnit! Piano player too... egad... I KNOW I've got this, but I have no idea... I've listened 3 times... I'll come back to it... I *KNOW* this record. Mike Cuozzo?

Track 4 -- Papa was a ro---.... oh... sorry. I just want to jump in my Lemans and start tailing Robert Mitchum through the bad part of town. No idea, but the drummer sounds like one of the CTI guys... maybe Bernard Purdie.

Track 5 -- Right up my alley... in 3... vibes... processed 70s sound... I'm all over this. Harmonization is a little thick. Sounds very overdubbed, which I'm less fond of. That pianist is familiar. This reminds me of another song, maybe something Horace Silver? Don't know, but that bass figure is very familiar. The voicings of the horns on the arrangement remind me a bit of Steve Turre's arrangements with Woody Shaw, but thicker... can't put my finger on it.

Track 6 -- That's Oliver Lake on alto. That makes me guess Jamaladeen Tacuma on bass. That tenor sound is very non-descript, but the attack is similar to what Lake does on alto. Never known him to play tenor, though. Maybe Ellery Eskellin? Weird, that arrangement is pure Woody Shaw to my ear. Sounds like Curtis Clark to me on piano, but I think the recording is too old. Somebody out of that Pullen school, for sure. Aw hell, I'm gonna say Don Pullen... Shit... on second thought, I don't think any of that is right. Could be a whacked out Chico Freeman on tenor, but sounds too out to me. It sounds like guys I listen to playing inside.

Track 7 -- Hehe... reminds me of the Emanuelle soundtrack. No idea what this is. More commercial than what I typically listen to, but in the right setting... I dunno, there's something that's 'best of Bond' about it. I dig it in spite of itself.

Track 8 -- Not an alto player I know. Sounds like a college guy (can't explain what I mean by that, but definitely a guy who has that studied sound). I don't know this band, but I like the drummer. This is actually good music, I just don't know that I would play it much. Piano player has listened to a LOT of McCoy and Herbie. Could be Tain on drums, but sounds more out than that to me.

Track 9 -- Woman's voice sounds like Rosemary Clooney to me. If that's right, I'll be shocked.

Track 10 -- The only sitar player I know is James Pomerantz, so I couldn't fathom a guess. Again, I like this, I'm just not sure if I'd ever toss it in the CD player. It's very soundtracky. It kind of reminds me of an old Dr. L. Subramiam cassette I have somewhere, but more restrained. Until the rap... uh... hmmm... no thanks. Alright... this has lost me (3:33). It's trying too hard to be too many things... it's going for bebop, swing, funk, and hindi-rap. No idea. This is a frustrating recording. The alto player has that "recordable" sound, that makes him (or her) completely indistinguishable. Sounds like a neutered Kenny Garrett. A bit like Justin Robinson, but too commercial. I"m clueless, but they're not players I know. There's something about this one really rubbing me wrong. I'll shut up now.

Track 11 -- No idea. Anything further I'd say would be offensive.

Track 12 -- Body & Soul, Trane changes (the BEST changes, IMHO). This just... damnit, it doesn't swing. Could be Ricky Ford, but doesn't sound quite as personally as Ricky to me. It's definitely Ricky. This what has always confounded me about him; some stuff I have him on and I love it (Ibrahim's NO FEAR, NO DIE; Waldron's CROWD SCENE), but much of it strikes me like this did. It frustrated me enough to look it up, and it's this. Never would have guessed the drummer, and he's somebody I love.

Track 13 -- Oof. I was digging this until the organ; holy 80s! Hyper-compressed drums. Simultaneous solo of drums and organ is too much in this setting. They're striving for in the pocket, but both are too busy and it spoils the feel (IMHO).

Track 14 -- Can't explain why, but I'm really diggin' this. Piano reminds me of the amazing Hassan. I want to say J-Griff fools nobody, but overall this sounds too commercial and the technique wasn't quite what I'd expect from J-Griff; perhaps something later (even though it's a needle drop).

Edited December 4, 2008 by Thom Keith

[Clunky]

Let 'em rip !

That's just it, I can't rip to disc the files but I can listen to them on my mac. No ideas so far

[sidewinder]

Track 6 -- That's Oliver Lake on alto. That makes me guess Jamaladeen Tacuma on bass. That tenor sound is very non-descript, but the attack is similar to what Lake does on alto. Never known him to play tenor, though. Maybe Ellery Eskellin? Weird, that arrangement is pure Woody Shaw to my ear. Sounds like Curtis Clark to me on piano, but I think the recording is too old. Somebody out of that Pullen school, for sure. Aw hell, I'm gonna say Don Pullen... Shit... on second thought, I don't think any of that is right. Could be a whacked out Chico Freeman on tenor, but sounds too out to me. It sounds like guys I listen to playing inside.

Good choices ! It is Oliver Lake and Don Pullen.

Edited November 27, 2008 by sidewinder

[sidewinder]

Track 7 -- Hehe... reminds me of the Emanuelle soundtrack.

Not "Emanuelle" !

[sidewinder]

And, of course:

Hey Thom - wrong thread for this lot. I've just created a BFT60 Disk 2 thread ! :rsmile:

(I'll reserve any comment until they are moved over. Hope that's OK).

Edited November 27, 2008 by sidewinder

[sidewinder]

Track 1 -- Lots of dissonant horns and a needle drop... nice. Nice bass. This sounds sort of Kenton-ish, but only in its outishness. Arrangement hints of Gil Evans to me. I'll lean Gil, but I have no idea what the recording is. Hmm... maybe George Russell?

Needle drop, yes. Not George or Gil.

[sidewinder]

Track 8 -- Not an alto player I know. Sounds like a college guy (can't explain what I mean by that, but definitely a guy who has that studied sound).

Interesting observation ! He was very young at the time this was recorded.

[sidewinder]

Track 9 -- Woman's voice sounds like Rosemary Clooney to me. If that's right, I'll be shocked.

Not Rosemary !

[sidewinder]

Track 14 -- Can explain why, but I'm really diggin' this. Piano reminds me of the amazing Hassan. I want to say J-Griff fools nobody, but overall this sounds too commercial and the technique wasn't quite what I'd expect from J-Griff; perhaps something later (even though it's a needle drop).

Not Hassan. Yes, a needle drop. And easily the best thing on the album !

[sidewinder]

Track 12 -- Body & Soul, Trane changes (the BEST changes, IMHO). This just... damnit, it doesn't swing. Could be Ricky Ford, but doesn't sound quite as personally as Ricky to me. It's definitely Ricky. This what has always confounded me about him; some stuff I have him on and I love it (Ibrahim's NO FEAR, NO DIE; Waldron's CROWD SCENE), but much of it strikes me like this did. It frustrated me enough to look it up, and it's this. Never would have guessed the drummer, and he's somebody I love.

Correct - 'Body and Soul'. And yes it is Ricky Ford. Any idea which album?

Good stuff Thom.

[sidewinder]

Track 3 -- Now you're talkin'! This is pissing me off... I KNOW this guy! Reminds me of Zoot, but more smooth. Gahd-damnit! Piano player too... egad... I KNOW I've got this, but I have no idea... I've listened 3 times... I'll come back to it... I *KNOW* this record. Mike Cuozzo?

Not Mike Cuozzo !

[tkeith]

Track 12 -- Body & Soul, Trane changes (the BEST changes, IMHO). This just... damnit, it doesn't swing. Could be Ricky Ford, but doesn't sound quite as personally as Ricky to me. It's definitely Ricky. This what has always confounded me about him; some stuff I have him on and I love it (Ibrahim's NO FEAR, NO DIE; Waldron's CROWD SCENE), but much of it strikes me like this did. It frustrated me enough to look it up, and it's this. Never would have guessed the drummer, and he's somebody I love.

Correct - 'Body and Soul'. And yes it is Ricky Ford. Any idea which album?

Good stuff Thom.

Yes, click the word "this" in my original post.

[sidewinder]

Track 12 -- Body & Soul, Trane changes (the BEST changes, IMHO). This just... damnit, it doesn't swing. Could be Ricky Ford, but doesn't sound quite as personally as Ricky to me. It's definitely Ricky. This what has always confounded me about him; some stuff I have him on and I love it (Ibrahim's NO FEAR, NO DIE; Waldron's CROWD SCENE), but much of it strikes me like this did. It frustrated me enough to look it up, and it's this. Never would have guessed the drummer, and he's somebody I love.

Correct - 'Body and Soul'. And yes it is Ricky Ford. Any idea which album?

Good stuff Thom.

Yes, click the word "this" in my original post.

Correct. This is a very good recent album on Blue Note that is undeservedly obscure.

[Big Al]

For the record, Sidewinder has not sent me the answers. Not that it would help any, cuz I probably still wouldn’t have any clue what I’m talking about!

Track 1 – This sounds like something that wouldn’t be out of place on a Gil Evans record. As soon as that big ol’ crescendo hit, my first thought was THIRD STREAM, whatever the hell that is.

Track 2 – Well, this is starting to sound like a tribute to Gil Evans BFT! The drummer sounds like mid-60’s Jimmy Cobb. Wanna hear something silly? There’s a bit at about the 3-minute mark that reminds me of the crashing-crescendo ending of Andy Williams “It’s the Most Wonderful Time of the Year.” You know, right before the big “OF THE YEEEEARRRR?” That part.

As you probably have figured out, I have no idea who this is.

Track 3 – Sounds like Art Pepper playing tenor. Nice rhythm section. Times like this make me ashamed I don’t own such obvious classics as Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section. I’m pretty sure this isn’t from that album, but this track reminds me I oughta get that at some point before I die. However, if this is from Gettin’ Together, I’m gonna kick myself for not listening to that as much as I should have.

Then again, if I’m completely off and it ISN’T Art Pepper, then.... well, what else is new?

Track 4 – HA! Sounds like Jack Bruce parodying his own “Sunshine of Your Love” riff! Seriously, this has a nice little groove to start things with. No, wait, this has one HELLUVA groove all the way through!!! Love the guitar riffing! The organ is a dynamo! What is this? Brother Jack? Charlie Earland? Joey D? Jim Alfredson? As BFT Grand Poohbear, Sidewinder, I hereby COMMAND you to send me the answers NOW!!!

Track 5 – Ahhhh, I love orchestral stuff like this! I’m pretty sure it ain’t Claus Ogerman, but it’s just as wonderful to these ears! Actually, this sounds like a tribute to Bill Evans via his orchestral album with Ogerman filtered through, once again, Gil Evans (I think at this point, I’m going to guess Gil Evans on every track, including track 4!). Oh heck, what is that song? “Valse” something-or-other? I recognized a bit in there that sounded like the same thing from the Evans album.

Track 6 – Eric Dolphy with Gil Evans. And that’s as far as I’m gonna go because I can’t STAND squawking altos!!! I think that’s Tony Williams on drums, but that could be anybody just trying to be able to hear himself over the screeching alto! NEXT!!!!

Track 7 – Ooooooh, VERY nice!!!! Love the guitar intro! In fact, I thought I might’ve had you, because at first I thought it was Johnny Smith from one of his trio records. I was all set to pounce and then the orchestra entered followed by the piano. This sounds like some kind of mid-60’s Verve session, and I’m gonna kick myself once I find out who the piano player is. The orchestral backing sounds like Johnny Pate with that two-note riff that always seems to pop on Verve albums from back then.

Track 8 – Must resist urge to search Allmusic for different versions of “Sorcerer.” Well, I can safely eliminate the Miles version and the Herbie version. Of course, that leaves... what 500 other versions? Ah well, maybe I’ll be able to recognize some players. Drummer sounds like Elvin. That’s about it, unfortunately!

Track 9 – Okay, this is THE definition of BALLS. Putting an Ella track on a BFT! How can you NOT get this one? Still, I’ve never heard this before and now I wanna hear the rest of the album from which this came. I hope finding that is as easy as it seems.

Track 10 – Oh, this is so COOL!!! Jazz sitar! And that GROOVE!!! Sidewinder, repeat after me: “I will send the answers to Big Al NOW!” I have no clue who this is, and..... wait, what the hell is that? Scat singing??? I HATE scat singing! Oh... well, it was brief. Hope it doesn’t come back! Love the trumpet solo that follows! And that sax solo! AND THE GROOVE!!! This song is only eight minutes long? Oh this could go on for HOURS and I’d be a happy man! Ah, there’s that damn scat singer again. OH well, he’s only mildly annoying, thankfully he doesn’t outstay his welcome. I could get used to this.

Track 11 – Man, you must dig these orchestral albums as much as I do! You seem to have found all the good ones! No clue, but I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say Percy Faith. Seriously. I know the guy’s cheesy & all, but the man knew his phrasing. Love it or hate it, y’gotta recognize he knew what he was doing and it wasn’t always schmaltz.

Or maybe I’m wrong and maybe it was. I don’t’ know. I just like this track. WHERE’S THOSE ANSWERS, SIDEWINDER????

Track 12 – Ha! Nice tribute to Trane’s version of “Body and Soul.” I dig the way the small group is arranged so that it sounds orchestral. If I didn’t know any better (and I usually don’t), I’d say this was a Jimmy Heath arrangement because it sounds like some kind of scoring for French horn and muted trumpet, something he was always good at. For all I know, that’s him playing tenor as well.

Track 13 – This one isn’t making much of an impression, but that’s not to say it’s a bad track. Guitar sounds like Metheny. DeJohnette on drums, perhaps?

Track 14 – Dude, WTFFF???? Monk on amphetamines??? I LOVE IT!!!! Helluva way to finish a BFT disc!

What a disc! What a treat! With the exception of track 6, not a bad one in the bunch! Will have my notes for disc 2 posted (hopefully) before the weekend is out.

Great job, sidewinder! :tup

[Big Al]

Let 'em rip !

That's just it, I can't rip to disc the files but I can listen to them on my mac. No ideas so far

Drat! I didn't think about saving the ZIP file in a Mac-convertible format. Any hints or suggestions for/from the Mac-maniacs would be greatly appreciated!

Edited November 28, 2008 by Big Al

[sidewinder]

Track 14 – Dude, WTFFF???? Monk on amphetamines???

That's a very interesting response, Big Al. And there's an element of truth in it.

[sidewinder]

Thanks Al - Some good leads there and I really enjoyed reading your response. Sorry about the rapping.. I promise to email the answers to you tonight (I'd forgot but it was worth it seeing your responses). .

Edited November 28, 2008 by sidewinder

[sidewinder]

I know the guy’s cheesy & all, but the man knew his phrasing. Love it or hate it, y’gotta recognize he knew what he was doing and it wasn’t always schmaltz.

Your right there. Not a cheesy player at all but the context for this one made that unavoidable I guess.

[WorldB3]

Totally humbling experience but a very enjoyable one, a couple quick stabs at a few I might know, just after one listen. Thank you for the discs.

#3. I should own this, damn it, not Art Pepper. Lee Konitz?

#8 Cover of Miles Davis Sorcerer, definitely not the Miles quintet. Maybe a live recording, Joe Henderson Milestone era?

#10 – Due to the commercial sound and vocal scatting I will say it’s off the Miles From India.

#11. That’s definitely the Gabor Szabo signature riff, might be from one of his later commercial CTI projects or just a session he sat in on.

#13. Sounds like that John Abercrombie mid-early 80’s period. Trio M or the other album he did with Jan Hammer.

Edited November 28, 2008 by WorldB3

[rdavenport]

This is a bit of a blowout for me, but here's my two penn'orth:

Track 2 - No clue. I was struck by the busyness of the drums. With the shout just before the applause at the end, I thought maybe Buddy Rich, but the rest of it doesn't fit with what I've heard of him. It gets a bit "Grand Wazoo" in places.

Track 3 - Is it Warne Marsh? It's been a long time since I heard any Warne Marsh, and I have all of the other tenors wrong so far, so I'm not at all confident! It's not quite as "icy" as I remember Marsh.

Edited November 28, 2008 by rdavenport

[tkeith]

Let 'em rip !

That's just it, I can't rip to disc the files but I can listen to them on my mac. No ideas so far

Drat! I didn't think about saving the ZIP file in a Mac-convertible format. Any hints or suggestions for/from the Mac-maniacs would be greatly appreciated!

No idea; my mac likes Zip files just fine. I'd suggest downloading Flip For Mac; it will allow you to do pretty much whatever you want to with those files. Option B, download SWITCH, which will allow you to convert the WMA files to mp3 files.

[sidewinder]

Totally humbling experience but a very enjoyable one, a couple quick stabs at a few I might know, just after one listen. Thank you for the discs.

#3. I should own this, damn it, not Art Pepper. Lee Konitz?

#8 Cover of Miles Davis Sorcerer, definitely not the Miles quintet. Maybe a live recording, Joe Henderson Milestone era?

#10 – Due to the commercial sound and vocal scatting I will say it’s off the Miles From India.

#11. That’s definitely the Gabor Szabo signature riff, might be from one of his later commercial CTI projects or just a session he sat in on.

#13. Sounds like that John Abercrombie mid-early 80’s period. Trio M or the other album he did with Jan Hammer.

Glad you enjoyed the music.

3 - Not Pepper.

8 - Actually not 'The Sorcerer' but there's a definite similarity. Not Joe.

10 - Not "Miles From India", although it's definite Indo-Jazz territory.

11 - Not Gabor !

13 - Not Abercrombie, although I agree there are some similarities with the sound on 'Gateway'.

Cheers !

[sidewinder]

This is a bit of a blowout for me, but here's my two penn'orth:

Track 2 - No clue. I was struck by the busyness of the drums. With the shout just before the applause at the end, I thought maybe Buddy Rich, but the rest of it doesn't fit with what I've heard of him. It gets a bit "Grand Wazoo" in places.

Track 3 - Is it Warne Marsh? It's been a long time since I heard any Warne Marsh, and I have all of the other tenors wrong so far, so I'm not at all confident! It's not quite as "icy" as I remember Marsh.

Track 2 - Some of the work by this drummer is, I agree, 'busy' ! Not Rich though.

Track 3 - Not Warne ! (I am soooo glad I selected this particular track )

[Clunky]

Let 'em rip !

That's just it, I can't rip to disc the files but I can listen to them on my mac. No ideas so far

Drat! I didn't think about saving the ZIP file in a Mac-convertible format. Any hints or suggestions for/from the Mac-maniacs would be greatly appreciated!

No idea; my mac likes Zip files just fine. I'd suggest downloading Flip For Mac; it will allow you to do pretty much whatever you want to with those files. Option B, download SWITCH, which will allow you to convert the WMA files to mp3 files.

thanks Switch has done the trick- useful utility too. now for the tracks

Track 1- Kenton like but probably some bass ass Yurpeans like CBBB having a heavy brass day

Track 3 Swedish ?? Arne Domnerus

Track 4 groovy , luvely track Dave Pike ?

Track 6 Woody Shaw-

Track 8 - very familiar I think, I may have this, oh the embarassment....no idea

Track 9 the Divine SV- groovy wood blocks, or coconuts being clattered together, nice

Track 12 Body and Soul- I wouldn't ever guess who this was

Track 13 - guitarist John abercrombie ???, perhaps his group with Dan Wall?