chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 would you guys say this is the first true pop crossover lp by bn? or do u guys know it. i am listening to my APPLAUSE label (???) reissue....(?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Not sure what you mean, chewy. Up to the end of 1969, BN had 21 LPs on the pop album charts and none of them were "Always something there". Here they are, in the order they hit: JIMMY SMITH MIDNIGHT SPECIAL JIMMY SMITH BACK AT THE CHICKEN SHACK LOU DONALDSON THE NATURAL SOUL JIMMY SMITH ROCKIN' THE BOAT DONALD BYRD A NEW PERSPECTIVE JIMMY SMITH PRAYER MEETIN' LEE MORGAN SIDEWINDER HORACE SILVER SONG FOR MY FATHER HORACE SILVER CAPE VERDEAN BLUES JIMMY SMITH BUCKET LEE MORGAN SEARCH FOR THE NEW LAND STANLEY TURRENTINE ROUGH 'N TUMBLE LOU DONALDSON ALLIGATOR BOGALOO JIMMY SMITH JIMMY SMITH'S GREATEST HITS LOU DONALDSON MIDNIGHT CREEPER STANLEY TURRENTINE THE LOOK OF LOVE ST LEE MORGAN CARAMBA LOU DONALDSON SAY IT LOUD DUKE PEARSON PHANTOM LOU DONALDSON HOT DOG JACK MCDUFF DOWN HOME STYLE (Some of these didn't get very high But if you're looking for albums of that type, "The look of love" looks like the first one to actually cross over to the pop audience. And that was out before "Always something there". In addition, BN had 5 more on the R&B charts that didn't go pop LOU DONALDSON MR SHING-A-LING HORACE SILVER SERENADE TO A SOUL SISTER DONALD BYRD SLOW DRAG LONNIE SMITH THINK GENE HARRIS ELEGANT SOUL No sign of "Always something there" in that lot, either. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Not sure what you mean, chewy. Up to the end of 1969, BN had 21 LPs on the pop album charts and none of them were "Always something there". Here they are, in the order they hit: JIMMY SMITH MIDNIGHT SPECIAL JIMMY SMITH BACK AT THE CHICKEN SHACK LOU DONALDSON THE NATURAL SOUL JIMMY SMITH ROCKIN' THE BOAT DONALD BYRD A NEW PERSPECTIVE JIMMY SMITH PRAYER MEETIN' LEE MORGAN SIDEWINDER HORACE SILVER SONG FOR MY FATHER HORACE SILVER CAPE VERDEAN BLUES JIMMY SMITH BUCKET LEE MORGAN SEARCH FOR THE NEW LAND STANLEY TURRENTINE ROUGH 'N TUMBLE LOU DONALDSON ALLIGATOR BOGALOO JIMMY SMITH JIMMY SMITH'S GREATEST HITS LOU DONALDSON MIDNIGHT CREEPER STANLEY TURRENTINE THE LOOK OF LOVE ST LEE MORGAN CARAMBA LOU DONALDSON SAY IT LOUD DUKE PEARSON PHANTOM LOU DONALDSON HOT DOG JACK MCDUFF DOWN HOME STYLE (Some of these didn't get very high But if you're looking for albums of that type, "The look of love" looks like the first one to actually cross over to the pop audience. And that was out before "Always something there". In addition, BN had 5 more on the R&B charts that didn't go pop LOU DONALDSON MR SHING-A-LING HORACE SILVER SERENADE TO A SOUL SISTER DONALD BYRD SLOW DRAG LONNIE SMITH THINK GENE HARRIS ELEGANT SOUL No sign of "Always something there" in that lot, either. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) Wow - 'Caramba' in the pop charts. The mind boggles ! Having said that, the first copy of this I got (and 'Sixth Sense') was on an original issue cassete tape 70s oil crisis mail order import bargain - and I think it also came out on 8-track. Edited January 18, 2009 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'm a Turrentine fanboy...but "Always Something There" is by far my least favorite album he recorded for Blue Note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Wow - 'Caramba' in the pop charts. The mind boggles ! Having said that, the first copy of this I got (and 'Sixth Sense') was on an original issue cassete tape 70s oil crisis mail order import bargain - and I think it also came out on 8-track. As I recollect, "Caramba" had a pretty danceable title cut and also a pretty girl on the cover. What more do you want for a hit album? A Ray Charles vocal? More amazing to me are "Search for the new land" and "Cape Verdean blues". MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 As I recollect, "Caramba" had a pretty danceable title cut and also a pretty girl on the cover. What more do you want for a hit album? I'll bet the dance floors cleared pretty fast when track 2 'Suicide City' came on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 As I recollect, "Caramba" had a pretty danceable title cut and also a pretty girl on the cover. What more do you want for a hit album? I'll bet the dance floors cleared pretty fast when track 2 'Suicide City' came on Don't think I ever heard anything more than the title track. I accept what you say without necessarily cracking up over it. You've made me wonder how people used to listen to these albums back in the mid sixties. I mean, I was a jazz fan anyway, but these albums sold to a much wider range of people than jazz fans. So, if you're seventeen or whatever and get an album because it's got one of those hip dance "Sidewinder" type riff numbers at the start, what the hell do you do about the other tracks? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'm a Turrentine fanboy...but "Always Something There" is by far my least favorite album he recorded for Blue Note. I'd certainly agree ... and I can still enjoy it because of that Turrentine "sound". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Some tunes on there work better than others. It was a missed opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Some tunes on there work better than others. It was a missed opportunity. Yes - some of his Fantasy albums didn't miss that opportunity. (Yes, some of them did, too.) MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'm a Turrentine fanboy...but "Always Something There" is by far my least favorite album he recorded for Blue Note. I'd certainly agree ... and I can still enjoy it because of that Turrentine "sound". I agree, too and I'm sure I could enjoy it, too... if I'd ever bought it. I do have the twofer with a few cuts on it. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Some (not all) of the early jazz approaches to Bacharach come off as though they were done to satisfy some A&R decision, and the artist in question begrudgingly goes along. It sounds like they treat this material as though it were lightweight pop. What's odd about this though, and I say this as both a musician myself and a listener, is that many Bacharach tunes can be challenging in various regards. Unusual chord progressions, phrases with odd numbers of bars and jarring rhythmic shifts, wide melodic jumps, etc. Many of the tried-and-true patterns that work for improvising on pop standards -Rodgers, Kern, etc. - don't work too well with Bacharach. What I can't figure out is why more jazz musicians didn't seem to realize this about his music. It would seem that if a jazz musician wanted something challenging to work with AND wanted to reach a broader audience, Bacharach was the ticket. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 wait wait what position did caramba land at, do you have the complete chart for that? id be interested to see what was below/above it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 wait wait what position did caramba land at, do you have the complete chart for that? id be interested to see what was below/above it!!! Wasn't a very big hit. Spent 3 weeks on the chart and reached 190. I don't have the complete chart for each week since 1955, chewy, just the Whitburn Pop and R&B chart books. They're in artist order, so I put the "jazz" albums in a spreadsheet so I can sort them by label or chronologically. But, to satisfy your morbid curiosity, I can tell you that Les McCann's "Much Les" and Pete Fountain's "Those were the days" were a bit above "Caramba" at the same period (March 1969) and Hugh Masekela's "Masekela" was a bit below it. I bet you're pleased about that, aren't you? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 lee morgan is better than hugh maskaleka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 lee morgan is better than hugh maskaleka Better at what? Lee couldn't make a piece of Township Jazz like "Stimela". Wouldn't because he didn't have the cultural background out of which it comes. But it's as emotionally effective as anything Lee - or any other jazz musician (with the probable exception of Lester Young) - has done. Bicycles are better than Big Macs. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Bicycles are better than Big Macs. But a McDonald's sundae is forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Bicycles are better than Big Macs. But a McDonald's sundae is forever. Straw's evidently blocked. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 (edited) I beleive that chewy's original question was about intent rather than results, so regular BN releases that they got lucky on wouldn't count as "commercial" but only those where they did something diffewrent to try to sell more would, regardless of whether they were in fact successful. Whether this is a coherent Q or rests on false assumptions is another matter, or two... I have both Always Something There & The Look of Love on Applause CDs and enjoy them both, but the're not my favs. Edited January 19, 2009 by danasgoodstuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) As I recollect, "Caramba" had a pretty danceable title cut and also a pretty girl on the cover. What more do you want for a hit album? I'll bet the dance floors cleared pretty fast when track 2 'Suicide City' came on Don't think I ever heard anything more than the title track. I accept what you say without necessarily cracking up over it. You've made me wonder how people used to listen to these albums back in the mid sixties. I mean, I was a jazz fan anyway, but these albums sold to a much wider range of people than jazz fans. So, if you're seventeen or whatever and get an album because it's got one of those hip dance "Sidewinder" type riff numbers at the start, what the hell do you do about the other tracks? MG I'm mostly referring to the part I bolded above... But am I the only one cracks up looking at that ad that is on some Blue Note inner sleeves that shows a late-teens/early 20's young lady lounging on her bedroom/den floor gazingly dreamily at the cover of Cecil Taylor's "Conquistador." Like that ever happened... Edited January 20, 2009 by Parkertown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'm mostly referring to the part I bolded above... But am I the only one cracks up looking at that ad that is on some Blue Note inner sleeves that shows a late-teens/early 20's young lady lounging on her bedroom/den floor gazingly dreamily at the cover of Cecil Taylor's "Conquistador." Like that ever happened... That one makes me grin too ! Isn't there also a copy of George Braith's 'Extensions' on the floor too that she is oggling? That picture is on the inner sleeve of the French Pathe Marconi DMMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'm mostly referring to the part I bolded above... But am I the only one cracks up looking at that ad that is on some Blue Note inner sleeves that shows a late-teens/early 20's young lady lounging on her bedroom/den floor gazingly dreamily at the cover of Cecil Taylor's "Conquistador." Like that ever happened... That one makes me grin too ! Isn't there also a copy of George Braith's 'Extensions' on the floor too that she is oggling? That picture is on the inner sleeve of the French Pathe Marconi DMMs. Now the funny thing is, I didn't think that was funny. The young lady is black and I think that makes a difference to how unlikely it would be. And the other LP is Jimmy Smith's "I'm movin' on". MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 danasgoodstuf is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 OK - well, I still think "The look of love" is a crossover attempt - first BN with strings. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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