Lennie Tristano biography?

[ghost of miles]

Anyone know of anybody at work on a Lennie Tristano biography? Or of a good online account of Lennie's life? I'm familiar w/Gitler's piece on him in JAZZ MASTERS OF THE FORTIES and would like to read more, as Tristano is a musician who's always intrigued me. I went through quite a Lennie spell a few years ago and have felt another one coming on lately.

[Larry Kart]

A biography of Tristano would seem like a natural. I suspect that it hasn't happened so far because those who really care a lot about Tristano tend to break down into two camps -- people who were (or still are) under his spell and people who felt his power and found it oppressive. A book written from the first point of view probably would be of interest only to fellow acolytes; one written from the second would be for fellow apostates--two rather small markets, even by jazz bio standards. Anothe possible reason is that info about Tristano (interviews with members of the circle, documentary material) may be hard to come by unless the biographer is willing to buy into the agenda of those he's interviewing and/or those who control the documentary material. BTW, John LaPorta's recent autobiography has some interesting passages about his encounters with Tristano. LaPorta probably would fall into the apostate camp, though he himself is a rather odd--as they used to say, "imperfectly socialized"--guy, so it's hard to be sure what to make of his Tristano anecdotes. My sense is that they're sound but that LaPorta was unlikely to get on very well with a whole lot of people.

[JSngry]

I found the portrait of Tristano in the recent Warne Marsh biography to be quite unsettling. I still love the music, but...

[ghost of miles]

Yet another reason for me to check out that Marsh bio. Yeah, I definitely get the impression that LT was a disturbing person in some respects. Some shadows thrown by more than just the magnitude of his music. I'm also curious about what he was up to the last 10 years or so of his life--still teaching? Still recording? (Little if anything's been released from that time.) As Lawrence Kart says, it might be difficult to find a writer who could approach him objectively. I'd love to read something by, say, John Litweiler (who may have written about Tristano in THE FREEDOM PRINCIPLE--can't remember, will have to check my copy of it when I go home tonight). But yeah, the protectiveness around his "cult" might make research/access difficult as well. I will give that LaPorta book a look--thanks, Lawrence.

[JSngry]

There's an interview w/Sal Mosca in the latest Cadence, and he's all "Lennie was a great man" and stuff. Mosca, remember, is a guy, a great player, imo, who didn't know that Oscar Pettiford had been dead for umpteen years.

What that says about the hold that Tristano had on those closest to him is no doubt open to interpretation, but I'm very uncomfortable with some of the implications.

Still, the guy was a brilliant musician, and it's no exaggeration to say that Lee & Warne are/were geniuses, especially Warne. Perhaps the qualities that made Lennie such a freak (allegedly) as a person are also the qualities that a lot of people "felt" in his own music at the time, and only when he himself began to recede as a figure, and his musical concepts began to be felt more through his followers could they begin to be appreciated for their greater brilliance.

An imperfect theory, at best, I know.

[Joe]

My understanding was that the Tristano estate is also rather protective of Lennie's place in posterity. Not necessarily remarkable, but given the circumstances both Jim and Lawrence have alluded to...

http://www.lennietristano.com/

[ghost of miles]

Went home & read most of the Mosca interview last night (I'm usually about two-three issues behind on Cadence). I never really thought about it, but Tristano seems in some ways the progenitor of the modern approach to teaching jazz. I know there were many, many superlative teachers in American high schools (in fact, once started a thread about them on the old board, to which Jim contributed a wonderful story); but had anybody specialized it to the extent that Tristano did? Jazz educators, feel free to jump in here and tell me if I'm getting it wrong--just an idea that I'm positing.

[brownie]

There was a biography of Lennie Tristano by French critic Francois Billard that was published in 1988. A 200-page pocketbook that included a short discography. Not bad, very factual. Doubt that it is available nowadays.

If you can read French, I have a copy and could ship it. PM if interested.

[Larry Kart]

I ordered the Ph.d. dissertation on Tristano-- by a former U. of Illinois student, Eunmi Shim-- that's mentioned on the Tristano website. In length and approach it looks like the critical biography we're looking for; will report when I get it and have read it. Ms. Shim says that it probably will be published in book form by the U. of Michigan Press at some point down the road. The author, BTW, was being supervised at the U. of I. by the excellent scholar/critic Lawrence Gushee.

[Quasimado]

*Jazz Visions: Lennie Tristano and his Legacy* by Peter Ind, will be published 9/1/2005 by Equinox (UK).

Q

[ajf67]

I recently finished the Marsh book "An Unsung Cat," which made me want to learn more about Tristano. I agree that aspects of his personality in this book are troubling. Also troubling and/or puzzling was the grip he had on Marsh. I understand the stylistic dedication, and appreciate the extent to which Marsh followed it, but his control over Marsh seemed to go way beyond that, to the detriment of his career. Tristano also comes across later in his life as a recluse who sunk into his own world. Some of this clearly was for health reasons, but I'd love a deeper look into his story.

[Jack Goodwin]

I recently finished the Marsh book "An Unsung Cat," which made me want to learn more about Tristano.  I agree that aspects of his personality in this book are troubling.  Also troubling and/or puzzling was the grip he had on Marsh.  I understand the stylistic dedication, and appreciate the extent to which Marsh followed it, but his control over Marsh seemed to go way beyond that, to the detriment of his career.   Tristano also comes across later in his life as a recluse who sunk into his own world.  Some of this clearly was for health reasons, but I'd love a deeper look into his story.

←

You've got to remember that what is in the book is one man's opinion - that of Safford Chamberlain - and not necessarily the same opinion is shared by everyone. Tristano was not a recluse later in life as, from around 1966 to the end, he simply taught a multitude of students. He taught, rather than performed, because he didn't tie in playing his form of jazz music with peforming in night clubs. He felt his music was of sufficient importance to be heard on its own and not to help sell alcohol. I don't believe that Lennie had 'control' over Warne Marsh. Marsh called Tristano - and I quote - "The greatest friend I ever had" and he accepted guidance from him, as one would from a mentor. But the Marsh of say, 1975 onwards, was not the Marsh of 1949 when he was a Tristano student. By 1975 Marsh was his own man and a virtuoso, playing in a different style to the Marsh of 1949.

Jack Goodwin

www.warnemarsh.info

Edited July 3, 2005 by Jack Goodwin

[AllenLowe]

I spent one very odd day with Tristano in the middle 1970s trying to interview him - and I must say he was the most controlling person I've ever encountered. He had an odd aura about him, of the kind you read about that cult leaders (eg Jim Jones) had - he told you to do something and you felt like if you didn't do it he would emit some kind of spell or curse. I think ultimately it is this kind of control that has made someone like Lee Konitz so bitter in his recollections - Tristano was a scary guy yet seemed weirdly protective, and you felt like you had to obey him for your own well-being - a classic cult-leader profile -

[Jack Goodwin]

Allen

I believe the antagonism Lee Konitz showed towards Tristano was over the editing of the recordings made at the Half Note and released in truncated form by Revelation on two LP's. Lee's solos were all omitted and Lee blamed Lennie for the editing. However, the editing was done by Connie Crothers and I have her note on this: "I might be able to help identify the tracks on "The Art of Improvising." I was the editor. Lennie didn't tell that to Warne and Warne assumed that Lennie did the editing. I did it for Lennie because he wanted a solo tape of Warne's playing from that date.

This misunderstanding wound up causing some harm and hurt feelings! I managed to give this information to Lee Konitz a couple of years ago and it turned it around for him."

Jack Goodwin

www.warnemarsh.info

[AllenLowe]

well, maybe, but...I think it's also (in the same connection) related to Tristano's overwhelming need to control everyone with whom he came into contact - that was the real nature of his personality -

[jazz4u]

This is Warne's son, Jason. My late God father was a shrink and a fine jazz pianist who'd studied with Lennie up until Lennie's death, then studied with Sal Mosca. According to him Lennie was a great man with a great sense of humor. Very direct, but not controlling. And my father never had a bad word to say about Lennie. I'd never met lLennie, but no one I know who had been in contact with him really had anything negative to say.

I can defend this notion of him having had sense of humor. I've heard recorded conversations between my late God father and Lennie, and he was a funny, funny individual. And if he was a bit controlling, Im going to assume it was because he wanted to hold his students attention.

I think all this stuff about him being a controlling swami has reached a point of being a bit gossipy.

[AllenLowe]

"Very direct, but not controlling"

I really don't believe this - fellow musicians witnessed something much different, and my (albeit brief) experience with Tristano shows him as a martinet - also, read John LaPorta's book, which describes a Lenny Tristano who was pathologically controlling - I spent only 4 hours in his presence and he sought to manipulate and control every thing about the interview - just the fact, by the way, that Lenny asked Warne Marsh to go into therapy with Lenny's brother is EXTREMELY controlling and quite unethical besides -

[Quasimado]

Peter Ind's new book *Jazz Visions - Lennie Tristano and his Legacy* is now available from Equinox Publishing in the UK. It has a detailed examination of Tristano's approach to improvisation, as well as a portrayal of the man as Ind knew him - essential reading for any one interested in Tristano, or in improvisation generally, for that matter.

Q

[Quasimado]

In essence, according to Ind’s book, Tristano’s method was that students immerse themselves in the “harmonic flow”. Accordingly, they perfected all scales (major, minor, fixed melodic minor ascending) through the cycle of fourths, and then worked on chords and chord extensions utilizing this same order, until they had internalized the natural “harmonic flow” through all keys. They also learned to sing, then play, standards in all keys, and the solos of the great instrumentalists (Lester, Bird, Roy etc,) who, Tristano felt, intuitively played in this way. Exercises to develop rhythmic freedom/ independence were also practiced.

Perhaps the important point is the “harmonic flow”. By becoming immersed in the flow, the musicians were able to play intuitively, allowing for pure musical expression, rather than some more conscious form of (self) expression. This would seem to be the basis of Tristano’s Feeling (Id) and Emotion (Ego) dichotomy.

Makes sense to me. Just to be sure, it would be better to read the book… you will

also gain some insight into the author...

Q.

[jostber]

There is more information on Peter Ind's book here:

http://www.wavejazz.com/tristanopressrelease.pdf

http://www.wavejazz.com/activities.html

http://canaryville.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph...aa519373c7a8964

A very fine book with inside information on the great man.

Tristano forum:

http://canaryville.com/phpBB2/index.php?si...aa519373c7a8964

[jostber]

Review:

http://www.123webpages.co.uk/user/index.ph...view&pn=1120707

[Larry Kart]

I disagree that Tristano and his legacy are in danger of being forgotten. One could argue that at no time since Tristano's death has his own playing, his concepts, and the playing of Tristano-inspired/tutored instrumentalists (saxophonists in particular) been more influential. For thing, there are the nuggets of Warne Marsh that arguably are present in vintage Wayne Shorter (especially notable on Tony Williams' "Spring") and thus in the work of every player who's listened hard to vintage Wayne and then, in a good many cases, has gone right right back to the Tristano-Konitz-Marsh source (e.g. the quite striking IMO Billy Drewes, Mark Turner, etc).

Also, FWIW, some 20 pages of my book "Jazz In Search of Itself" (Yale University Press, 2004) are devoted to the music of Tristano, Konitz, and Marsh (and Peter Ind, too).

[AllenLowe]

I agree - and it's interesting because a critic like Martin Williams, as I recall, downplayed Tristano et al's importance by saying that he thought they had little influence - and yet I have seen more than one quote from avant gardists citing the Tristano school as early inspiration (and Julius Hemphill told me he particularly admired Lee Konitz) - from what Julius told me he was as effected by the spirit of the music (its attempt to stretch accepted forms) as he was by the actual music itself, and that these guys represented an early attempt to violate jazz norms that was quite inspiring -

Edited October 25, 2005 by AllenLowe

[ghost of miles]

Upping this because of another thread with news of the Tristano bio alluded to in Larry's (Lawrence's? Guess I was more formal in those days) earlier post.